Speaker 1: 0:13

Welcome to the Cohort Sisters podcast, where we give voice to the stories, struggles and successes of Black women with doctoral degrees. I'm your host, dr Jamma Cole, and today we're going to explore the work and journey of Dr Kimberly T Arnold, a health policy and mental health services researcher, public health practitioner and yogi. Dr Arnold holds a PhD in health policy and management from the Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg School of Public Health, and she specializes in advancing health equity and reducing physical and mental health disparities. With her expertise in community-engaged research, she collaborates with stakeholders, including church leaders, mental health providers and policymakers to create comprehensive mental health support in churches. Dr Arnold's journey, just rooted in her personal experiences witnessing the effects of racism and trauma in her community, will inspire and uplift our listeners. So welcome to the podcast, dr Arnold. Thank you, it's all great to be here. Thanks again for joining us. So tell us a little bit about yourself. Where are you from, where do you live now and what are some things that you'd like to do?

Speaker 2: 1:19

Yeah, so I am originally from Sunset, south Carolina, which is a small rural town in the middle of this state. So we're about an hour from the capital of Columbia and for people that aren't that familiar with South Carolina but may have heard of Myrtle Beach or Charleston, I'm about two hours from Myrtle Beach and about an hour and a half from Charleston. So I grew up on a small farm. So I'm a country girl at heart and I love all these outdoors. So I grew up working in my family's garden, helping my dad feed our cows and just really enjoying the connection with nature. So I've always been a person who's been very grounded and have always loved to just be outside. So that's where I'm from and right now I live in Philadelphia. So I live in South Philly, which is kind of near the stadiums. I don't know if people are that familiar with Philly, but I'm near the sports stadiums and I've been enjoying living in Philly. It's definitely been a change from growing up in a very rural area and now living in a very large urban area, but I am enjoying it.

Speaker 2: 2:33

And in terms of hobbies, I love all things fitness. So right now I'm a yoga teacher on the side. So I really enjoy connecting with people through yoga. So I teach yoga about three days a week and outside of teaching classes I also like to go with the classes talk by other instructors, and I also enjoy things like shrimp training spot activities. So if anyone out there is listening or wants to send me a gift card, I love spots Not how I'm just kidding, but I really do enjoy just taking care of myself and relaxing. So I love massages, getting manicures and pedicures and also going to more like luxury type spots where you can kind of spend the day just visiting different saunas and steam rooms or just having all types of body treatments and things like that. So, and then traveling, of course, is another big hobby of mine.

Speaker 1: 3:30

We share the spa life hobbies. It has been a minute since I went to grad school in New York and I don't know if you have spent any time in New York, but there is a spa. It's not too far from Philly, so hopefully you can get here. There's a Korean spa in New York called Sojo Spa, which, if you've never been to it, you got to go. You got to go.

Speaker 2: 3:49

I've actually I love Sojo. I went for the first time in February and I just went again last month for my quarter to well in this retreat with one of my friends, so I absolutely enjoyed it. So I love Sojo. They have so much to offer and I also was happy to see the differences between going in the winter and then going in the summer, where they open up a lot of the outdoor amenities, so I had an amazing experience there, yeah.

Speaker 1: 4:15

I'm so excited to hear that. I was like, oh my gosh, I have to tell you about Sojo, because that was definitely a source of calm and rest for me when I was still living on the East Coast, so I'm glad you were able to experience it as well. I forgot to mention during your introduction that you're also an assistant professor. Why did I leave that out of the intro? So I would love to know. I'm kind of going out of order now from our questions, but you mentioned that you use this phrase, like you do your yoga instructor on the side, so I would just kind of love to know from jump like how do you create time? Why do you feel like it was important for you to do something outside of teaching, research, community practice Like it's? You're doing so much, why add on something else?

Speaker 2: 5:04

I would say the number one thing is self care, and I will hear me talk about that a lot during this interview because it's so important and it's something that I had to learn the hard way, because I didn't always take care of myself, especially when I was going through my PhD journey, even before that, honestly. But at this point in time in my life, I have learned that self care is the best care, and so one of the main reasons why I wanted to become a yoga teacher is because of the fact that yoga integrates the mind, the body, the spirit, and it's truly a holistic practice that brings together all of those different dimensions of our health, and I also see it as a tool for not only healing but for this general wellness, so even for people that may not necessarily be on a healing journey whether that's healing from injuries or trauma or just daily stresses but when we think about wellness, wellness is multi dimensional, and I also saw yoga as something that is multi dimensional, and so it just really aligned with my own interests. It aligned with my passion around holistic wellness and, because of the fact that I was already doing yoga anyway, this is part of my regular fitness routine In the back of my head. I had always said, oh, I'm going to become a yoga teacher when I retire. But then, during the pandemic, as I was reflecting on my life and my journey, the guy was just speaking to me more and more and he was like why are you trying to wait, you know, 40 years or whenever down the road when you retire? This is something that you need to do now.

Speaker 2: 6:47

So I really just listened to the voice of God and my inner intuition and I was just like you know, I really want to become a yoga teacher. I didn't necessarily know at that time how I was going to do that, and not too long after, you know, I was sitting down thinking about it. I was writing in my journal and then an email popped up in my inbox from a local yoga studio and they mentioned that they were opening applications for the next cohort for their teacher training, which had been shut down during the pandemic, and it was something that they were going to be offering in the fall of 2021. So I just took that as a sign from God. You know, this is my opportunity to really pursue an area of interest and as well as just something that's part of my overall passion around holistic wellness.

Speaker 2: 7:36

And I really took advantage of that training and I made the time for it. And that's another really important point is that you have to make time for yourself. Like, work is always going to be here. There are always going to be things that we have to do, but if we don't take care of ourselves, we're not going to be here to do the work. So it's really important to integrate self care. No matter how that looks for you, as long as it's something that's helpful, that's healthy and something that's going to fill your cup, it's something that you have to make time for.

Speaker 2: 8:06

So I got the. I started my teacher training in 2021. I finished last year and, you know, haven't looked back. So it's something that I just make sure that I integrate into my schedule. So I block off the time when I'm teaching and sometimes that means that maybe I have to work a little bit later in the evening. I'm my regular work or just kind of like juggle my schedule around a little bit to fit it in. But I just make sure that I do that because it's a part of my own routine for myself here, as well as something that's helping others.

Speaker 1: 8:40

I love that, so I would love to know more about your childhood and educational journey. How did you become interested in public health? Was that something that you know as a little kid? Did you know about the concepts of health and wellness? How did you kind of develop an interest in public health as a discipline and as a field, especially around health policy and management?

Speaker 2: 9:04

Yes. So when I was growing up I've always been passionate about health. So as far back as I can remember I've always been interested in health. So when I was little about maybe three or four years old I remember looking in a JC Penney catalog. So some people may not remember those really thick catalogs that they used to send out around holidays for people to be able to order things through the mail. This was pre the big internet home. So because I am a 90s baby, so this was like before the internet was as mainstream as it is now. So my mom gave me the JC Penney catalog and she told me that I could select one thing. So the catalog was about this thick and out of all of that she was like select one thing that you want for Christmas.

Speaker 2: 9:53

So as I was flipping through the twink section in my head at that time, I'm like I want something that's gonna speak to my interest around health. Of course I didn't say it that eloquently in my head as a young kid, but when I selected a doctor's kit that was connected to my interest in health and at that time, growing up in a small rural town, I didn't have a ton of exposure to various health careers. So the only things that I really knew about as it related to health were careers like the Zing of Pharmacists or being a dentist or a physician or a nurse, like I didn't really know about public health careers. So growing up, I always thought that I was wanting to become a physician. So anytime that people in my family were sick, I was always concerned about them, wanting to help take care of them, but my real interests were in number one why were they getting sick?

Speaker 2: 10:49

So I had always been interested in what makes people sick and as I got older, I was looking around in my community and I was starting to notice patterns in my family and in the broader community that there were common conditions that people were experiencing. And, of course, my family is black and the majority of people in my community were black. So I was wondering at that time, like is this something that's just specific to my area in South Carolina? Is it specific to black people? And the more that I read, the more that I talked to people from other areas, I started to learn that conditions such as diabetes, hypertension, high cholesterol, like these, weren't things that were just only specific to my family, but these were conditions that were chronic illnesses that impacted black people as a whole throughout the United States as well as, when we look at globally, there are different conditions that disproportionately impacts black people.

Speaker 2: 11:52

So when I was in undergrad, I was again still on this path of becoming a physician and I remember attending an interest meeting for the Ronald McNair Scholars Program and it was a new program that was going to be offered at my university, which was actually a small liberal arts college, but they at that time they didn't have a lot of programs that were encouraging people of color to enter PhD careers. So during my sophomore year it was going to be the first year that they were launching the Ronald McNair Scholars Program, which has that exact mission to expose underrepresented people of color to careers that you would need a doctor for. So during that time one of my mentors at my university had recommended that I attend this interest meeting because she was, like you know, I know you're interested in going to medical school.

Speaker 2: 12:53

But some of the questions that you have and some of your interest, I think would do well within a research career and I think that it would really support your interest and help you to kind of discover more about the thing that you're interested in, as it relates to health disparities, which I didn't necessarily know what that meant at that time, Like I didn't know.

Speaker 2: 13:13

there was like an entire field where people focused on these things. So I went through the interest meeting and, to make a long story short, I was really just surprised by the information that was presented. When they said that you could get paid to do research, so I was like, oh, I can get paid to pursue my interest and to answer the questions that I have. And then they also discussed mentorship, which I didn't have a lot of mentorship at that time, and so I was like, oh, I can get mentorship. And then they said that they would also assist you with applications for a graduate school.

Speaker 1: 13:48

So in my mind I'm like. You know whether or not I decide to go to medical school.

Speaker 2: 13:53

If I do choose this path, I'll have support in applying for graduate school. So I ended up applying. I got accepted into the program and from there it was just like no looking back. So during the program I was able to learn more about what it means to be a PhD, what it means to really conduct research, and also how to get into graduate school and that process. And from there I ended up. We were all required to do a research internship and I ended up landing a research internship at the Medical University of South Carolina.

Speaker 2: 14:30

Cause in the back of my mind I was still like you know, if I do go to medical school, at least I can say that I did this research internship and I could connect with some physicians and researchers at MUSC. So from there I did my very first summer research internship at the Medical University of South Carolina and because of my interest I was actually matched with the Center for Health Disparities Research. So in doing that I was working with a team of predominantly black physicians and a couple of them had also had graduate degrees. One of my main mentors there had a master's in public health from directorial university, which is how I ended up going there.

Speaker 2: 15:13

So that's another piece of the journey and they really mentored me and nurtured me during that summer research internship and, in addition to gaining some very basic foundational skills in conducting clinical research, I was also actually able to talk with them about my true interests, the things I wanted to do with my life, like the people that I wanted to help, and they actually encouraged me to then apply for a master's in public health because they were like your interests fit squarely within the field of public health. You're really interested in disease prevention and health promotion, really understanding the underlying causes of diseases, and you're also interested in using research to address health disparities, and through that I ended up applying for a master's in public health programs. And part of that was due to the fact that at my undergrad they didn't have a public health major at that time. So it wasn't like something where I could go back and change my major, because by the time I actually started the Ronald Maynard Scholars Program I was already a junior and I did the summer internship between my junior and senior year.

Speaker 1: 16:31

So you know time is running out.

Speaker 2: 16:33

I did not want to be a super senior and stay another year because they were going to add a public health major that following year, which means I would have had to stay in school a 50 years. So they were like don't do that, you have a bachelor's degree. I also had two minors at that time Because I had a minor in health and a minor in African-American studies. So they were like between your major in biology and your minors, plus your research experience in doing the Ronald Maynard Scholars and at the medical university of South Carolina, you'll be a competitive candidate for a master's program. And because of the fact that one of my Goodman's board had went to Drexel and told me about their focus on community health and really addressing disparities, that's one of the main reasons why I applied for my MPH there and then just continue the journey from there.

Speaker 1: 17:31

Yes, it's so amazing when mentors are, when we are able to come across people who one have gone before us and can just be like, hey, I know exactly what kind of work you want to do, I know the perfect place for you to do it, and then it works out. So I'm so glad that you were able to be connected to this mentor through the Ronald Maynard Scholars program and then continue on your academic journey. So you go to college, you get into Ronald Maynard, you then do an MPH. Did you apply to a doctoral program right at the end of your MPH? Did you take some time off? Can you walk us through the master's, the doctoral transition, and love to know more about the doctoral application process?

Speaker 2: 18:08

Definitely so. During my MPH program again, I was seeking, like I had the goal at that point when I went through the so when I applied for the MPH, I already knew in my head that the PhD was going to be the next step.

Speaker 2: 18:23

So I was able to kind of focus on research throughout my MPH so that I could get enough experience to add on to what I did in undergrad to be competitive for a PhD program because, unlike master's programs, there aren't many slots available for PhD programs.

Speaker 2: 18:42

So you have to be competitive, you have to have research experience and an alignment with the programs that you're applying for and all of that. So right away I was seeking mentors. So that's something that is going to be a common theme of the importance of mentorship, because it's really the key. So I was seeking mentors within the faculty of the MPH program and during my very first year, once again a new program was launching. So they were launching the Opening Doors Health Disparities Research Training Program, which was funded through the National Institutes of Health, and that was a program that again was established to connect underrepresented people of color to research and specifically having that focus on health disparities research. So it was perfect for me and I applied for that program and it was also limited on slots available and thank God I got accepted into that and I was because of my interest, I was matched with a faculty member who has she's still very important to me right now in my life and has helped me throughout my journey through the PhD process and even now I still call her sometimes for advice and just to catch up. And so I was matched with her for the Opening Doors Health Disparities Research Training Program and her work was focused on addressing health disparities through community partnerships and at that time she was specifically focused on working with Black children physically and that was mostly on chronic disease prevention related programs and things like that. So as soon as I started working with her towards the end of my first year of the master's because I did a two year master's program so towards the end of the first year I was working with her as a research assistant as part of this program. So I was getting some additional training in health disparities research through different courses as well as different mentors that would come in as part of the program as well as additional mentorship from her.

Speaker 2: 20:54

Her name is Dr Nicole Vine and so through working with Dr Vine's lab I had shared with her when I very first started working with her that I wanted to get a PhD. So right away. She was like these are the things that she needs to do. I need to make sure you're doing research and all of these things. And she was helping me to identify programs that I was interested in, and so I started pretty early.

Speaker 2: 21:18

So by the time that I finished my second year of the master's program, I had already had a short list of PhD programs that I wanted to apply to and after finishing the MPH program.

Speaker 2: 21:33

So I didn't go right away to a PhD program from my master's. So I took up a gap year, essentially so that I could make sure that I finished out my full second year of the MPH program, so that I could finish up the study that we were working on, try to get a couple of publications out of it, but then to also make sure that I had time to connect with people at a couple of those institutions, just so I could learn more about the programs, talk to potential mentors that I would work with in the program, also talk to students that had gone through the program, and then to also get some additional research experience. So I ended up moving back to South Carolina, but prior to moving from Philly back to South Carolina, I applied for a couple research assistants positions in the state of South Carolina, because I knew I was gonna be moving back.

Speaker 2: 22:30

And I ended up getting a job at the university of South Carolina in Columbia, which is about an hour or so from where my parents live. So I landed a research coordinator position there, and they were working on a large-scale study that again was working with churches throughout the state of South Carolina to implement healthy policies and practices to prevent chronic diseases. So I ended up doing that for about a year or so while I was applying for PhD programs, and then I ended up getting accepted into my top choice in February of, I think, 2015, and then started it later that year.

Speaker 1: 23:10

Yeah, I love how you didn't rush the process right, and so I love the intentionality behind let me finish out the work that I'm currently doing during my master's degree so that I can have the time to do the proper research about different doctoral programs, meet people, network, get myself ready. I just love that you weren't like, okay, I know I wanna do this, like let me go do it. You took the time to do all your research and get all the ducks in the row One. I think that does two things. One, make sure that you are really choosing the best program for you, and so I love that. You said that was your top choice and I'd love to know how the experience was once you got in.

Speaker 1: 23:49

But at least you applied to your top choice. That's what I know. Right, but you did your research to make sure that was really the best program for you and for your interest. And then, secondly, by taking additional time to get more research experience, you make your application stronger. So I think that that's like a lesson for folks to not rush the journey, not rush the process. These programs take forever and a day anyway. There's no need for you to rush into it without doing the proper research and also without making sure that you're preparing yourself professionally and academically to have as strong as possible of an application. That's true, yeah. So let's talk about the program itself now, what it was your top choice After you finished, did you think it was the right choice for you? Were you happy with your decision to?

Speaker 2: 24:39

go there. I still think that. So I would say yes, but I still, at the end of the day, think that it was the right choice for me to go there, because it was the number one school in my field. So I think that it still was right for me because of the well-rounded education that I received.

Speaker 2: 24:54

I met a lot of great people, both faculty members as well as fellow students, and I also got a really great education out of it and a lot of great experiences and it's not to say that I wouldn't have gotten those experiences elsewhere, but I can't speak to that because that didn't happen. But I think that it was a really great learning experience and I definitely would say that I grew in so many different ways both professionally, personally, spiritually, all different areas of my life, and so the person who I was entering the program was not the same person that I was when I finished the program.

Speaker 1: 25:31

And.

Speaker 2: 25:31

I would say that it was important for me as well to be in a place that was flexible enough for me to be able to kind of pursue my different interests, because I've always had so many different interests within the field of public health as soon as I found out about it and found out about how vast it is.

Speaker 2: 25:49

But the common thread has always been addressing health disparities and at that time there were researchers that I really admired and still admire to this day that were doing health disparities research and the way that they were going about doing it was really inspirational to me and so and it really helped to kind of widen my eyes to a lot of things, because another thing that set that particular program apart was the fact that you had to have a master's to even be accepted into the program and they were kind of looking for people with a little bit more experience, either through your education, working or both, and really being able to help you think through the different ways that you can use your career and really use the education that you were receiving to actually impact populations like entire populations, and not having to stay kind of in a theoretical space.

Speaker 2: 26:50

Everything was very applied, very practical. So those were things that were also really important to me to not necessarily be in a traditional quote unquote educational or academic space where they're trying to get everyone to go into a 10-year track faculty position. So because some people from our program went into government or into academia or into industry, like it was a whole range of things and they weren't trying to box you in to be a certain way or to do a certain thing when you finished, and so those are things that I really appreciated as well. But there were definitely some challenges along the way, but I wouldn't change anything. I wouldn't like go to a different school. I was still because of the fact that I did learn a lot and it really helped me in a lot of ways to just grow and to be the person and the researcher that I am today.

Speaker 1: 27:45

Right, yeah, you started hinting at challenges. Can you share with us one high point from your doctoral journey and one low point? So one success and one challenge, while you're getting your PhD?

Speaker 2: 27:59

Well, the biggest success was finishing up.

Speaker 1: 28:02

Everyone always says that I'm like we know, but it's still an accomplishment. It's a huge accomplishment still, yes.

Speaker 2: 28:10

But I would say one of the biggest successes was doing an additional pre-doctoral fellowship that again. So another parameter that she will probably notice is that God just placed me in these places at the right time, literally when new things were launching that I was able to take advantage of, and they were things that I needed at that point in time in my life.

Speaker 2: 28:35

So during the I think towards the end of my second year in the PhD program, as I was getting ready to enter the dissertation phase my department, which was the Department of Health Policy and Management, launched a brand new pre-doctoral and postdoctoral fellowship program still a national institute of mental health fellowship program where they accepted a couple pre-docks and a couple postdocks each year to focus on mental health services and systems. And that was the piece that I needed, because it wasn't something that was necessarily ingrained within my master's or my PhD. But I learned a little bit about mental health during my master's program because I took a course on trauma, violence and public health, and during my PhD program there weren't any courses that were specific to mental health until I got into this pre-docks fellowship program and that literally was the piece that I needed, because I had so much background and training already on the physical health side and I was starting to become interested in mental health and I was like, how am I going to gain some foundational knowledge in this to actually be able to go out and have that as part of the work that I do? So that was definitely an extreme high point for me because it was also something that provided additional funding for me, which I can talk more about that, but I do want to make sure I cover that challenge. The biggest challenge for me was that my original PhD advisor left my first year and that was a huge reason why I accepted that PhD offered at that particular time, because initially when I got accepted I was actually going to defer for a year because of the fact that I was really enjoying working with the faith activity and nutrition study at the University of South Carolina Provincial Research Center. So I was enjoying connecting with different churches and community organizations across the state and that's my home state. So I really wanted to continue doing that work.

Speaker 2: 30:45

But when I flew to Baltimore to meet with some of the faculty in the program and to meet with the faculty member that had agreed to be my advisor, I was like this was like a dream for me, because I had already read about him for years, I had already been following his research and I wanted so badly to be mentored by him and to learn from him as an advisee and a mentee. But unfortunately when I started he had gotten an offer to be a chair at another prominent school of public health and ended up leaving. And that was such a challenge for me. I really struggled because I had to find another advisor, which thankfully he recommended another amazing professor who ended up being my advisor and she still amends for it to me to this day as well. But it was still hurtful, I guess, because I really wanted him to be my advisor and I still was able to work with him a little bit during my second year. But then he went on to get a dean position at another school of public health and moved to a whole different area in the United States. But that was very, very challenging for me just trying to navigate that process of getting another advisor.

Speaker 2: 32:06

And then I would say a second biggest challenge was funding. So originally when I applied for the program, they thought that I was fully funded because I was a Bill Gates Millennium Scholar from the time I finished high school, all through undergrad. So the Millennium Scholars Program paid for all of my undergrad cards, paid for the majority of my master's education, and they had made some changes to that program throughout the years. And so by the time that I had applied for my PhD program my program that I was applying to, they had experienced previously with Gates Millennium Scholars and prior to me applying, they used to fully fund graduate education, but along the way, so that they could accommodate additional scholars, they started capping graduate funding. So, even though my program didn't know that at the time when they spent the acceptance, they were like oh, we're so glad that you are going to be fully funded through the Gates Millennium Scholars Program.

Speaker 2: 33:17

And I would lie, wait a minute, there's a disconnect here, and that's a communication. It's not fully funded anymore. So I share. But by the time they had sent that, the letter stating we're glad that you're fully funded, et cetera, that came after my initial acceptance, because I got the early acceptance. And then, a few months down the road, when they were talking about the funding and they sent the funding letter, they're like oh, we're glad you're fully funded. And I'm like but I'm not though.

Speaker 2: 33:47

So we need a deceptive, but unfortunately it was too late in the year for them to because they had already promised other students funding and things like that. So me getting that pre-doc fellowship, that took a big low off of my shoulders. So not only professionally but also financially, it was a huge success because it made up for that gap of funding. So prior to that I was working a lot trying to pay for my living expenses and everything wasn't covered. Thankfully, a lot of the tuition was covered, but because of the school that I was going to, tuition was a lot so it was very expensive and even though I had a lot of money, it wasn't enough money.

Speaker 2: 34:34

So yeah, but everything ended up working out. So those are tips that I would say as well just make sure it did, communication is clear and make sure that you are fully funded, because there's no reason why anyone should have to pay for for a PhD, because you're supposed to be getting paid for the work that you're doing.

Speaker 1: 34:55

So yeah, yeah, oh gosh, I'm like having heart palpitations for you getting that letter and being like, oh, actually I'm glad that everything, as you said, things continue to fall in line for you. You clearly have a lot of favor on you. I love that and so excited to to kind of hear you reflect on the different steps that really seem like divinely appointed steps to get you to where you are today. So it lets me know kind of what motivated you to specialize in community engaged research, especially research in the church, and how has this helped you address health disparities?

Speaker 2: 35:38

Yes. So, and this is also connected to the question about you know my interest around health policy. So, going into the field of public health, I had of course been interested in addressing health disparities and the word that I learned about health disparities, the causes of health disparities and the solutions in ways that we can reduce and eventually eliminate disparities.

Speaker 2: 36:02

all that comes down to multi-level strategies because of the fact that there were multiple things that contributed to health disparities, so of course there are going to be multiple things that are going to be the solutions, and so for my work and my interest, it fell into those two buckets of community as well as policy.

Speaker 2: 36:24

So we know that top-down approaches are helpful in some situations, but they're not always helpful, especially when people that are impacted by disparities are not part of the policymaking process and then a lot of the unintended consequences of policies disproportionately impact us. So that was one of the reasons because of the fact that a lot of times policies are not being made with us in mind or not including us in that process, but then also a lot of policies aren't made based on evidence, so sometimes the evidence that is being used again may not have included black people or other people of color or other marginalized populations in that process. So that was one of the main reasons why you know I was interested in health policy because of some of those reasons as well as when we think about when you set policy, they impact you know a lot of people. So a lot of times we think about policy at the local level, the state level, the federal level. There are all these different levels where policy impacts are daily live whether we realize that or not.

Speaker 2: 37:36

So that was one of the reasons why I was interested in that path. But then again, the community is my part. So, like along the way, I've always been doing community engaged research because of the fact that it's something that is of interest to me. It's something that even goes back to what I mentioned earlier around me, looking around in my own community, like what's contributing to these health conditions that we experience, and we know that policies contribute to to our health.

Speaker 1: 38:05

But we also know that there are a lot of other things in our community that contribute to our health.

Speaker 2: 38:10

So in the field of public health we call social determinants of health the things that are all of those non biological or non medical factors that can contribute to our health. So things like our environment, whether that's the physical environment, whether that's the natural environment, the man-made environment, like all of these different environments that we interact with on a daily basis can contribute to our health.

Speaker 2: 38:34

We know that socially, there are different social components, so even when it comes to racism and discrimination, those things can contribute to negative health outcomes. When we think about economic factors, so your education, your, the work that you do, the income that you make, all of those different factors can contribute. So and I can go on all day talking about these things, but at the end of the day it just comes down to how, when we look at the causes of health disparities, policy is going to touch a lot of those things as well as community. So when we think about sources of strength, we can also gain a lot from our community in terms of that social cohesion or being close to people in our community, getting social support and that is something.

Speaker 2: 39:25

I realized early on, even in doing certain research studies where we found that social support was something that had contributed more than just even access to health services or just simply telling someone and sharing health education with them about ways they can live healthier or ways that they can prevent diseases.

Speaker 2: 39:46

When those things are done within the context of a supportive community, people are way more likely to adhere to the things that they're learning or the things that you're sharing with them about how they can be healthier.

Speaker 2: 39:59

And then another thing is just that when we look at anchors of communities, a lot of times in the black community the black church has been an anchor historically and even now to this day, churches are an anchor. So we know that the black church has that history of social justice, of providing alternative systems of survival. When we were cut out of, you know, the mainstream, when we weren't able to receive medical care from the same places as white people, when we weren't able to see and rest in line for to get jobs from certain places, the church has always been there to fill in the gaps and to also be that source of strength, like many black churches are behind starting many black colleges and universities. So it just took us so many aspects of our history. And even now, churches do a lot to address social determinants of health. So churches do things like addressing food insecurity.

Speaker 2: 41:00

So I'm on the board of the black church food security network, which really focuses on co-creating agricultural systems within community and not waiting around for you know, people to give us food, we help people to grow food, helping churches to start community gardens or to connect with black farmers and and to also figure out ways that we can grow our own food at home or at the church.

Speaker 2: 41:27

So helping churches to start community gardens and different things like that.

Speaker 2: 41:31

So, as it relates to you know, different aspects when you look at the different types of social determinants, I'm pretty sure, like there are well, I'm not gonna say I'm pretty sure I am sure that there are many churches that are addressing those different areas and really helping to support the health of the church members, but not only the church members, but also people within the local community that may not even be a member of the church.

Speaker 2: 41:56

So right now, I'm working with churches around mental health, because that was something that during all the work that I did with churches leading up to my PhD program, a lot of that was focused on chronic diseases and, and really you know, figuring out ways to help churches support the health of their members as it relates to physical activity or nutrition and other respect for chronic diseases, but mental health was something that was kind of left out of the picture, and so this in in hearing directly from people that I was working with through those programs and they were saying that you know, I'm depressed, I'm anxious or I've experienced trauma and knowing that many of the programs that we were delivering weren't set up to address them on those things.

Speaker 2: 42:43

So just taking that more holistic view of health and really working with churches to enhance the mental health support, that they may already be providing in informal ways and just figuring out ways for us to build a climate and to figure out what are some mental health programs that we can provide in the church and how to strengthen connections with local mental health providers, to provide additional layers of support when needed and for people to also access services that they may not be able to access within the church.

Speaker 2: 43:14

So, at the end of the day, the community is not hard and and those bottom up and grassroots approaches are so important when it comes to health disparities and and again, we have really everything that we need within ourselves and within our communities to address health disparities, and it's not that we have to wait on the government or we have to wait on even services like like health services to or health providers to do these things. There are many things that we can do on our own within our homes, within our churches, within our schools and other spaces where we may spend the majority of our time so that we can better focus on our health and better support our health.

Speaker 1: 44:01

Your passion and clarity about the importance of working with the community alongside them. I love how you said like we have all the tools in order to address health disparities, and also kind of framing the church. I thought about the church as a social support and I've, like you know, I've seen some of that literature, but I haven't thought of the church as a, as a what am I looking for? As like a provider of health services.

Speaker 1: 44:31

I think that is an interesting framework and just, yeah, I find your work fascinating. The public health geek in me is like, oh my gosh, I could talk about something, just so I can help all day long with you. I can kick you about it all day long. I have one more question about kind of like the yoga piece that I wanna ask quickly and then we will start to wind down. So I think it's really powerful how in the black community at large, but also in the black church, how the idea of mental health is becoming more agreeable to be discussed in spiritual spaces. And so I'm kind of curious about yoga, because I have the people feel differently about yoga in the black Christian church. So I would love to know how you have, if at all, through your yoga instruction. Are you integrating yoga or other self-care practices in the work that you're doing in the black church as a way to improve health, or are they kind of separate?

Speaker 2: 45:37

Yes, I would definitely say that they are integrated. However, there are there's still a lot of things that I want to do as it relates to yoga that I am planning to do over the next year. So, in terms of more formalizing, like a self-care program that can be delivered within churches, that includes yoga as an essential key, and so that's something that I'm working on right now. But, as it relates to just even talking about yoga or sharing yoga within church spaces, so far when I've done it, the churches that I work with have been receptive to it and I haven't received any pushback so far. And not to say that I've been doing this with, you know, hundreds of churches so far, but only in like a couple of churches that I'm currently working with in Philly, and we are looking to, you know, spread this more wider within the area. But it is something that they've been more receptive to, and I think it is just because of the time that we're in right now.

Speaker 2: 46:37

During the pandemic, a lot of people and institutions started to really recognize the importance of mental health, as well as the different ways that you can support your mental health, through physical activity in general, as well as through practices such as yoga, that kind of integrate the physical component as well as those mindfulness components that are really essential to supporting our mental and emotional health. So they've been receptive so far. And but I would say that for churches that may not be as receptive. I would connected to scripture, essentially because there are a lot of similarity between a lot of the philosophical components of yoga and certain elements of Christianity. So there are some things that are aligned. There are some things that may be different, but there is some alignment. I would focus more on those areas that are in alignment so I may kind of connect with them through that.

Speaker 1: 47:36

Very, very cool. So we'd like to end each of our episodes with two specific questions that we ask all of our guests. So the first one is what is one thing that you would do differently, if any, during your doctoral journey?

Speaker 2: 47:50

I would say, the thing that I would do differently was just to be more intentional, because I would say that when I was born, through some of those challenging times, I was more focused on survival, just like, okay, I just need to get through this. But I would say to be more intentional and to also focus more on myself here, because I didn't do that enough. I really did not take care of myself in the way that I take care of myself now, and I just wish that at that time.

Speaker 2: 48:19

I would have prioritized self-care a bit more and then just also been more intentional about how I was spending my time and just kind of thinking more long-term about things Like even when it comes to publications, for instance, like I could have focused a little bit more on writing, but I was doing a little bit more of working and getting the experience, but not necessarily doing as much writing to increase my publication record. So those would be some of the tips that I would get.

Speaker 1: 48:45

Okay, well, now that you've done some self-reflection, what is one piece of advice that you have for the cohort SISIS community, the current Black women and non-binary doctoral students and applicants and degree holders who make up our community?

Speaker 2: 49:00

Process self-care like. I cannot stress that enough because you have to take care of yourself. And I always like to go back to when you're on an airplane and they tell you to put on your oxygen mask first before you help someone else. And that applies to our life, because if you are not taking care of yourself, you are going to burn out.

Speaker 2: 49:20

And I have seen that time and time again with other people of color that have gone through PhD programs and were working so hard that they burned themselves out, like they got stressed out. They had breakdowns where some of them left their program. They had to return later, or it took them a lot longer than it had to, or they just when they finished, they were so tired and burned out that they weren't their best selves when they went into their next position and they continued that process of burning themselves out. And then I do also have people in my life that are near and dear to me that have developed stress and do conditions because of going through their PhD program and not taking care of themselves and then also not prioritizing their self-care when they finish. So now is the time to prioritize your self-care, because if you can integrate those practices into your routine now. That's only gonna set you up for success later. So that's what I would say is the number one piece of advice prioritize your self-care.

Speaker 1: 50:23

Well. Thank you so much, Kimberly, for joining us on the Cohort SysSys Podcast. It was really a joy to hear you talk so passionately about working with the community, about working in churches, about your divine steps that have gotten you to where you are in your doctoral journey. We're excited to continue following along with the important work that you're doing. ["the Cohort SysSys Podcast"]. Thank you again for listening to this week's episode of the Cohort SysSys Podcast. If you are a black woman interested in joining the Cohort SysSys membership community or you're looking for more information on how to support or partner with Cohort SysSys, please visit our website at wwwcohortsysscom. You can also find us on all social media platforms at Cohort SysSys. Don't forget to subscribe to the Cohort SysSys Podcast and leave us a quick review wherever you're listening. Thank you so much for joining us this week and we'll catch you in next week's episode. ["the Cohort SysSys Podcast"].