Speaker 1: 0:13

Welcome to the Cohort Sisters podcast, where we give voice to the stories, struggles and successes of black women with doctoral degrees. I'm your host, Dr Rija McCollough, and today we have Dr Aisha Burton with us. She's a scientist and an advocate for diversity and inclusion in the world of STEM. She grew up in the southern suburbs of Chicago. I haven't sure she received her PhD in microbiology from Indiana University. She's faced roadblocks, but she's triumphed over them and broke stereotypes, paving the way for others from historically underrepresented groups. Through her dedication and her passion for research, Dr Burton has excelled as a postdoctoral researcher at the NIH, the National Institutes of Health, exploring the intricate world of bacterial interactions. Beyond her achievements in the lab, she's also an adjunct instructor at a community college where she mentors and supports aspiring STEM professionals. Welcome to the Cohort Sisters podcast, Dr Burton.

Speaker 2: 1:14

Thank you so much for having me, dr Ijioma Okola, thank you so much to the Cohort Sisters, and I'm just happy to share my story and hopefully inspire the next set of STEM scholars.

Speaker 1: 1:31

Absolutely. I know that we already know that you're from Chicago, but tell us a little bit about your childhood. When did you start getting interested in science? Were you always into the sciences? Did you develop?

Speaker 2: 1:44

a love for science later in life.

Speaker 1: 1:46

Would love to know a little bit about your childhood, as well as where that microbiology STEM interest originated from.

Speaker 2: 1:54

My childhood. I grew up in a city called Phoenix, illinois. It's a very small suburb of Chicago. I had the great opportunity of living next door to my grandmother, on my dad's side. I had Granny and I had my parents, and that was a great time, because it says take a village to raise a child. I had my village literally next door, my granny. She loved to grow flowers and grow vegetables so we were always outside digging in the dirt. I was like Granny, what's this flower, what's this flower? She also loved to watch birds, so I would watch birds with her.

Speaker 2: 2:35

Growing up, I cultivated my interest in nature and in science a little bit through going to Granny's house. My mother also liked to take me to it's called Sand Ridge Nature Center. It's really a nature center to learn about the local wildlife and flora. I used to go with my mom and we would walk on these trails. I did summer camps there, and so that was a really great tool for me to go and get my hands dirty literally in the dirt and try and see what's going on around me. Also, my mother, I guess, saw that I was interested in science because I was a young child, and so she put me into summer camps for STEM. I was the only black child because we were in some southern suburbs that were majority white and so a majority majority One of those, I think it's right. So I grew up my neighborhood was black, but when you go out further south from Chicago it is more white, and so my mom would actually take me to these other suburbs because they had this opportunity for me to go into these STEM summer camps, which was great.

Speaker 2: 3:57

I thoroughly enjoyed myself, and so I went to high school, and in high school that's when I really got excited about science and I got excited about chemistry actually. So I had an AP chemistry teacher, mr Stark from Thornton Township High School, andi just loved the way he taught chemistry, and so we would have our lecture, but then we also would have our lab, and I just loved the chemistry lab. I was like every day I was like looking forward to chemistry and going to chemistry labs. I was like we're going to do something fun today. And so I also have to credit Mr Stark with getting me into research, because as a senior in high school, he had got an opportunity to send some of his students or I guess he could nominate us to go to a summer program at Northwestern it's called the Cure Program and so me and another guy actually, we applied and got accepted. So the summer between high school and going to college we actually got to do summer research at Northwestern for 10 weeks and it was paid and it was great.

Speaker 2: 5:06

I would take the train into Chicago with my friend and we would commute in and we'd walk to Northwestern campus it's the medical campus in downtown Chicago, so right on the lake, and we would end together and we would walk home, walk back from the train together, and so that was really nice. But it got me to see science in a different light, because my mentor was a black man and he was a kindergarten teacher and he was going back to get his PhD and I was just like I thought everybody in science was these white guys and had crazy hair and looked like Albert Einstein, like that was my visual representation of what a scientist looked like. Like I knew we had Mae Jemison, but to me she was just an astronaut, like it didn't click that she was also a scientist and so oh, there's actually people in research labs that look like me. This is attainable. So I got really excited about research after that experience in, I guess, the summer before college.

Speaker 1: 6:06

Yeah, I hear you on that idea that you know we knew about Mae Jemison right, but being able to translate the I'm going to space to like, you have to start somewhere before you start going to space. Exactly, and so I totally understand how you didn't make the connection between her being a scientist and an astronaut.

Speaker 1: 6:28

And you're so right this idea that scientists are really nerdy white guys who like have crazy hair and like never leave the lab, like don't eat, don't have a social life, like that was the vision of a scientist. But yeah, shout out to all of the teachers, the mentors that we had as kids, who, and our parents who pushed us, you know, who introduced us to worlds that we otherwise, like, probably would have never known about, so I'm so glad that you had parents who cultivated that early interest that you had in science, as well as a teacher who made it fun for you to learn about science, which that's like a whole nother battle being able to learn in a way that is like not completely boring.

Speaker 1: 7:16

I feel like that's how the struggle for why a lot of us don't end up in STEM is just like it. Just it seems dry, it seems so dry when it's being taught to us as kids. So that's really exciting. I am. I feel like I can no longer say that I'm used to the Midwest because I've been living in the Midwest for two years but, I, still feel like it's new because in the grand scheme of my life, two years is a really short period of time.

Speaker 1: 7:38

So can you talk me through? You know, growing up in outside of Chicago in Illinois and then deciding to remain in the general Midwest. You did your doctoral degree in Indiana University. I'm not sure where your undergrad or if you did a master's degree program were, but can you just talk a little bit about, like, what is it about the Midwest that kept you there?

Speaker 2: 8:00

I see. So to me, chicago is a gem. If you haven't been to summertime, shy, like, maybe what are you doing? Like you need to get to Chicago right now? Um, there's just so many festivals, so many like things to eat or places to eat. Um, we used to have taste of Chicago, and so if you haven't been to taste of Chicago, that was like a staple of my childhood. Um, we also have a beach. I know, I know people from the East coast and West coast maybe, like y'all don't have a beach, but if you look over, like Michigan, you don't see the other side. Therefore it's a beach. Uh, I don't know, it gives beach vibes. People serve too. So I don't know, I think if you haven't been to a Chicago beach, definitely try it out. Um, and it's just. It's just this hub of deliciousness. Chicago is a hub of deliciousness and you can go anywhere in the world, either train, car or plane. Um, so Chicago is just always home for me.

Speaker 2: 9:04

Um, so I did my undergrad at the University of Illinois at Chicago, so I didn't go away for college. Um, I was about 20 minutes on the highway, so close enough to like pop home for the weekend, but not close enough for my parents to always be popping up, um, cause I'm like I know y'all got to go to work, y'all got things to do, you can't be popping up on me. I will say that I am an only child, so I do talk to my parents almost daily, um, even if it was just to check in on them, like hey, y'all, y'all good, y'all all right? Um, so I did my undergrad in Chicago and then, as a senior, I was applying to graduate programs and I didn't get in anywhere. So I was distraught. Um, but I should, I guess I should rewind a little bit.

Speaker 2: 9:50

So as a freshman in college, I had got afforded the opportunity to have guaranteed admissions into pharmacy school. So I wouldn't have to apply to pharmacy school, I just have to keep my grades up and take the? Oh, whatever that pharmacy test is. I forgot now. And so I was like I'm Gucci, I just have to keep my grades up and I'm a go to pharmacy school. But remember, I had that uh interaction in Northwestern and I had that summer. And so I was like, oh, research is kind of cool.

Speaker 2: 10:21

So I actually worked in research labs for my first two years of like a lab tech, so washing dishes, filling up pipette tips. And this was actually with Dr William Walden, and he was also a black man and I was like, whoa, this is great, I'm working with all these black researchers. This is really cool. Um, and so I left the Walden lab cause I thought I wanted to go into cancer research. So my junior and senior year I worked in a doctor need some Hayes lab studying prostate cancer, and so they worked with mice, and that's when I found out I didn't want to work with mice at all. So don't give me the mice, I don't want to do anything with mice. Um, and I think that's a great lesson, because you also need to know what you don't like as well as what you do like. So we crossed that off the list, um, and so my senior year I didn't get in anywhere.

Speaker 2: 11:13

Also, my senior year I took microbiology as an elective. So I majored in chemistry and I minored in bio. So for my bio minor I had to have like an elective. So I took microbiology, um, and so I was like this is the best class ever. Um, so we had lecture in lab. Lecture was fine, but I loved the lab Again. I like working with my hands, so in lab we were doing all these different types of tests and then they gave us an unknown organism that we had to find out what it was, and so I felt like Sherlock Holmes I love Sherlock Holmes, by the way and so I'm like I'm this little detective, I'm trying to find out what this organism is. Me and my lab partner are playing on different media, and it was. It was great. I had a blast, um, and so that's when I fell in love with microbiology was my senior year, right, um, and so I didn't get into grad school.

Speaker 2: 12:02

But my friend, uh Jasser, he got into a post back for medical school. So I don't know, have you heard of post back programs? Okay, um, so he got into a post back program. I was like, well, let's see if they have post backs for research, like just regular research. And I Googled and I saw that the NIH has a program. So the NIH has post back allurets, um at the main campus, but there's also funded programs through energy and mess around the country.

Speaker 2: 12:32

So I applied to several institutions, I think our plaita beller, university of Missouri, and then also university Chicago, and so university of Missouri actually took me um for a post back and I was like grateful because I was like, I didn't get into grad school, I got this plan being whatever I'm going to do, um, and so I actually moved to Missouri and I stayed in the Midwest. I didn't want to be too far from my family. Um, again, I got this only child syndrome. I'm like want to be near my parents, I want to be able to go home for the holidays. So I stayed in the Midwest, um, and I actually hated Columbia, missouri. It's this small college town. I'm coming from this large city and I'm like baby, what did I do? What is this? Where did they put me?

Speaker 2: 13:23

And, like, you start in July, so you don't really meet the other prep scholars, and so I was like, oh, I'm like here by myself, I don't have any friends yet, like, so it was a rough couple weeks until we started with the program um, but I took graduate level courses, I took GRE prep, I rotated.

Speaker 2: 13:46

I did rotate in another mouse lab just to ensure that's not what I wanted to do. And then I ended up in the lab of Dr Judy Wall and so she studied the sulfol vibrio and how it affects um, or how it metabolizes different metals, and so I just did a year as a prep scholar, um, so I knew I wanted to get out of Columbia. I was like I got to get a game plan and Dr Wall was so gracious enough to like help support me in my dreams of leaving Missouri, um, that quickly, and so I applied to I think it's University of Oklahoma, oklahoma State, indiana University, I think University of Wisconsin, madison, rutgers. I don't know if I applied to anywhere else, um, because as a prep scholar I did have fee waivers, which was great, so I didn't have to pay that graduate school fee. Um, and I will say that Abercams is bomb. If you can go to Abercams, please go to Abercams. I went as a prep scholar and it's still like in my heart that I need to go back to Abercams again.

Speaker 1: 15:00

I think I went once as a grad student and I haven't been as a postdoc yet, so yeah, so for folks who don't know what Abercams is, can you just say a little bit like two sentences about what it is?

Speaker 2: 15:12

um, abercams is? I don't want to get the acronym wrong, but I think it's the annual biomedical research. Mmm forgot this conference. Some hope that will make it, we'll get the.

Speaker 1: 15:25

We'll get the acronym in the show. Please get the acronym.

Speaker 2: 15:27

Please get the acronym, but this is a opportunity for minority students to showcase their research. There's a lot of schools that come and recruit, so you have recruiters there. You also have faculty who are dedicated to supporting you in your field, and so these different postdocs and academic faculty they'll have workshops for personal development, professional development, how to survive in grad school. So it's just a really nice way for students to, you know, be in the biomedical sciences, to showcase the work and have support doing so. And at the end I think we have our brothers and sisters from Puerto Rico. They come and if they win, like best poster or something, they're out there with their drums and this is just a vibe, and I think Morehouse, they also have a chant that they do when their students win as well. So that's it's just. It just warms you up and you like.

Speaker 1: 16:32

This is where I needed to be yeah, it's so great when we were able to find the spaces that are for us, right like whether that's in college or in an undergraduate setting, graduate school, in a conference. It's just like right, the warmth that you feel like when you're in a safe space because it's all about feeling like one that you're not alone, and two things with people. You don't have to explain yourself to it, just it just makes everything better so you applied to a couple of different schools.

Speaker 1: 17:02

What was it about Indiana University that stood out to you? Why was that ultimately the best choice for you?

Speaker 2: 17:09

and was it the choice for you after you finished oh, that's a good question.

Speaker 2: 17:14

Um, I think Indiana had the most um variety in research. So for their micro program, um, it's pretty large and you can pick from several of the professors, um, so I like that about them was that they had a very diverse um team of scientists. They also paid the most. So the graduates stipend. I was like, look, I gotta, I gotta live, so it's gotta eat, um. And then also I was looking at the medical benefits. Are they giving medical, dental, are they giving vision benefits?

Speaker 2: 17:47

Um, because I'm like, as an adult, look, um, and I actually I may, I may get back into it. I have like six pairs of glasses, so, um, so yeah, you have to think about these things. So I had a post-bac uh, tiara, tell us that, work with me at the NIH, and so these are some of the things I was telling her, like how much are these schools paying you? How close can you live to campus? What's the cost of living? And then what are these medical benefits that they're giving you? Um, and so I use those same um things as I was looking for programs, um, so I chose Indiana and I did three rotations, um, and I picked a lab and I actually switched labs, okay, and I know that's like okay, well, what?

Speaker 1: 18:38

let's first unpack like why is it? Why is it maybe taboo to switch labs?

Speaker 2: 18:47

let's start there, because folks might not know um, I think people feel like you don't work hard enough, right, I feel that's, that's come. That's some of the sentiment that I've received is that I didn't work hard enough. That's why I wanted to switch labs. Or, um, it's like that persistence, right, like, oh, you need to persist through the pain, you just need to persist through this. And I'm like, baby, I'm tired of struggling, I don't need to struggle. Look, not, my grandparents struggled, my parents struggled, baby, we got to stop the buck somewhere. Um, and so another graduate student at the time, kayla Miller, actually switched labs first, and so I saw her switch labs and I was like, oh, this is an option. And so the project, the project that I was on in my first lab was more suited for a post doc, and I was told this via my committee, and so it's not just me saying it, like, my committee said this.

Speaker 2: 19:49

And so I switched projects, um, during my candidacy exam, and so I basically I failed my first candidacy exam. They were like you need to bring it the second time or you have the program. So this is the straw, right, I'm in Indiana, which is close to home. I was like three hours from my parents house. So I was like, okay, I can go see my parents or another, but you're gonna tell me I'm gonna get kicked out this program. What I was de-straw, okay, and I'm basically what happened. This is so wild. I met my husband at this time, um, so I broke up with one boyfriend. It was about to be my birthday. I met this new man who's my husband now and like, after I met him, all these changes just occurred in my life before I went in for my second candidacy exam. This, my husband. He married. Well, he actually prayed for me. I'm like I ain't never had no man pray for me before I go into this candidate. Like what, sorry? What, um, um, which was great. And so I passed the candidacy exam.

Speaker 2: 21:00

But we had some other stuff happen and basically the straw that broke the camel's back was my professor was taking my um growth lights and I needed growth lights for my experiment. And so I'm like, why are you gonna take the lights? So he's like, oh, I need them for when I go to Arizona. But you knew that you were gonna go on this trip four months ago and could have had more lights made. So I'm gonna stop my research so that you can go do what you want to do, what that means you don't value me as a scientist and you don't value my work. So he left and I like peaceed out Uh, it was actually, but I was considering leaving the lab before that moment, like I wasn't even like like thinking about staying. I was like, oh, maybe I can work with it with this person. Um, I was trying to do like weekly meetings. This person asked me, as a third year PhD, do I know how to pipette?

Speaker 1: 22:02

Okay, even I know how to pipette and I have, like I haven't done science since high school. Come on, wow. And I was assuming, of course, he wasn't asking. You know, other students who did not look like you, these same questions.

Speaker 2: 22:19

Yeah, so I did have one. I did have one friend in the lab. I actually had two friends in the lab and so I left one friend she still has some more time to go Um and the other guy he left, but the guy he actually helped me with my escape plan because I need to get out Um, and so it happens and I actually went to the arch enemies lab around the corner, not me and Petty, yeah so.

Speaker 2: 22:56

So again, all of this is happening. This third year after I meet my husband, I'm going to this new lab and I just take off, I just flourish as a scientist. It's great, um, and this is in Dan Kern's lab at IU. So, um, I told Dan I don't want to be a seven year postdoc, and so he's like I have this project and we can get you out in three years as long as you're willing to put the work in. And I was like Dan, I'm willing to put the work in. And I, you know, I busted but and got it done and the rest is history. Oh, my PhD, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 23:34

Oh gosh, Okay, so many like parts of the story that I want to unpack and I'm like I don't know if we have time to get into all of them, but I mean first of all the like having to redo a candidacy exam, I think is a lot of people's like worst nightmare, and so the fact that you like didn't give up when you heard that you had to retake it, and you press, persevere and you got right over and then you pass your exam.

Speaker 1: 23:59

I think that's like one takeaway for folks in case they're currently in a doctoral program, maybe feeling like or they just got news that they might have to redo their qualifying exams like, don't give up, people retake their qualifying exams all the time and all as well.

Speaker 1: 24:13

So that's like one takeaway. Two I think what you said about you know, realizing that your advisor former advisor like didn't respect you as a scientist is so key. And I think that the moment that whenever you realize that in your, in the course of your doctoral journey, like you have to figure out how to switch because you can't really I don't know like maybe some people feel like you can earn respect, but there's like no time, there's no time. So if you feel like, yeah, if you feel like the person like, literally like they don't respect your research, they don't respect your methodology, your theoretical approach, you just got to find another advisor. You got to figure it out somehow, because it's just, it's going to be an uphill battle and, as you said, other parents struggled, our parents struggled, we ain't got to keep struggling.

Speaker 2: 24:58

We don't have to keep struggling.

Speaker 1: 25:01

So I think those are really, really amazing takeaways for folks who are listening. So what did you end up like? What was your dissertation about? Like, what did you end up researching Like for your dissertation?

Speaker 2: 25:13

So I studied a Sigma factor. So this is a transcription factor that helps RNA polymerase identify where we want to turn DNA into RNA, and so I studied this factor that is found on a large plasmid in the organism, basillis subtlis, and so I think that's the most plain way I can explain my research without getting into the weeds for people, for your listeners, yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:44

Got it, got it Now. You've also talked about and understandably this might be the case because of the field that you're in, you've talked about a lot of male mentors from even from high school, and then it sounded as if some of the advisors that you talked about in grad school were men. Did you come across any women, female mentors or any black, specifically black, women mentors, whether, even if they were not necessarily faculty but peer mentors? Like, how did you kind of cultivate, aside from Mae Jamison? Like, how did you cultivate finding other black women in your field to inspire and uplift you?

Speaker 2: 26:22

Right.

Speaker 2: 26:24

So I do have my best friend, mel LaMonna. She is a Latina and so there weren't any other black women in the micro department and so I call Mel, my sister from another master, me and her, we kick it, we like go out, like I just love her, and so we would go to the DSP I'm going to get this wrong. I don't know the acronym for the DSP, but it's a program through the Southern Regional Education Board and basically it brings all of the black and brown doctoral students together every year around Halloween and it is a blast. So me and her would go to this just to get rejuvenated. Like we get this rejuvenation going and it's just, it's just so great to see all these other people of color getting their PhD and it's just like this is my community. So I had that as a graduate student.

Speaker 2: 27:26

I also had Professor Abagounday, indiana University. She led the mentor, the graduate mentoring center, so this was something new, that was started, and so she saw me with my hair on a fro and she stopped me and we were talking. She's like I want you to come to the graduate mentoring center and I was like yes, and so she just gives this vibe and it's just so warm and she genuinely cares about us, and so I had her as a mentor and someone to lean on. My boss, dan Kearns, is great, he's an ally and he puts you know, he put his money where his mouth is at. Okay, he definitely does the work for diversity that we have. And so his wife, dr Katie Kearns.

Speaker 2: 28:19

She was at the oh, what's this place called? There's so many acronyms it's called SIDL, center for Innovative Teaching and Learning, and so I knew that I wanted to be a professor, I knew I wanted to teach. I always have this like teaching vibe about me, and so I went there to get more experience with teaching and learning about like teaching pedagogy and like how do I teach as a biologist? And so she was really integral with that part of my learning or development, I would like to say.

Speaker 2: 28:51

And then also the previous lab that I was in had pictures of previous work, like previous work, and also their images of the people. And then that's how I saw Dr Miranda Montgomery, as she was a postdoc, and I was like I ain't never seen a black woman in microbiology. Who is she? And so actually I called leaps out to her and I was like will you be able to like speak with me, and she took time out of her day as a professor to speak with me, and I'm actually Twitter friends with her right now, so I love to see her growth as a professional in science. Then we also at IU had Irene Newton.

Speaker 1: 29:36

Back. I'm just wrapping up with with your talk about Irene, you in right.

Speaker 2: 29:43

Yeah, she's great, she's a Latina as well, and so I would go to her lab sometimes just to chat with her, and she gave really good advice, and so that's kind of like the people I would lean on for when I needed help. When I was at IU, I was also in the I can't persist Cohort at Indiana University. Um, this was led by dr Carrie Wilkins Yale, I think. She's now at Boston University, but it was to help women of color who are in STEM. So we had undergraduates as well as graduate students, and a Portion of this program was we were prepared to bring high school students from Indiana, from Indian Indianapolis, so they would be bused in from Indianapolis to IU and we would have Like different sessions with them about like science and like different experiments, and so that was really cool to have like all three levels at IU, and so that was really powerful.

Speaker 1: 30:44

Thanks.

Speaker 1: 30:45

I love that you you speak with about your experience with such joy and warmth, which is so rare and so refreshing, and so I'm really glad that you had an amazing experience at IU, one where you were poured into and then you also had the opportunity to pour into others. I would love to talk about, like towards the end of your doctoral journey. You know what was the process, like kind of thinking about next steps. Did you Immediately know that you wanted to do a post-doc? Did you experiment with the academic job market? I would just kind of love to know how it was in those last few months weeks.

Speaker 2: 31:25

Yeah, that's fair. It was very weird. I'll say it's weird. So I think 2018 I started thinking like, oh, I need some looking for postdocs that's what people do.

Speaker 2: 31:42

Again, I've just always had this like academic mindset of like all, I'm gonna be a professor. I got jaded when I was an undergrad. I was. I had this one or an organic Either in organic or physical chemistry professor. He was trash. Now I was like I would be a better professor than you. This fight to be a better professor has always been in the back of my mind.

Speaker 2: 32:06

So, finishing up my PhD I love the microbiology I was like I still need to be a professor, like I want to teach. I should also state that as a graduate student, I did tutor as well at the Neil Marshalls like cultural center. So I did tutor and so I Went to my first Gordon conference and so, if some of the listeners don't know, a Gordon conference is where you have really the big leaders in the field that you're working in come together, they talk about their research and Sometimes you just not work and you meet the right people and things can happen for you. So that's what happened for me. I met dr Gigi Stores at the Gordon conference and she invited me out to give a talk at NIH and I was like what I was a grad student.

Speaker 2: 33:02

And so I Should have known you go. You go see what the story goes. Um, and so we planned for me to come out in 2019, around March, and Guess who? Scheduled her bachelor rep party the week before she's supposed to go to the NIH, but it was five. It was five. Oh.

Speaker 2: 33:33

I have a really great group of friends we call ourselves the divas and so they went to my bachelor rep party with me, and actually the night before we left, they stayed up with me and they helped me with my presentation, so that the next day when I fly out, I was flying directly to DC and so I had my presentation together. Baby, get you some friends that stay up with you to get your work done. Okay, and so Going in, gigi knew that I really was interested in teaching, and so she Also knew that I was interested in potentially working in Howard, and so she got it, so that when I came to DC, I actually would go to Howard first, and so I met some of the Howard faculty, I gave a talk there, and then I went to the NIH and gave my talk there. Um, and so when I went to NIH, at the end of the day, she offered me the job. I didn't know. It was a job offer, y'all, if anybody asked you to give a talk, just assume it's a job offer. That, just that's it. Okay, don't assume even else. Put your best foot forward. It's a job offer, I guarantee it. Um, and so I Hopped in our inch on the table.

Speaker 2: 34:45

I also was looking at another professor, pam Brown, at University Missouri. So I was considering going back because I love Pam. If you had University Missouri, go to Pam Brown. She's a really great mentor. And I say that because Dan couldn't go with me to ASM, which is the American Society for Microbiology, like their annual meeting, and Pam took me around and like I had like a PI even though she wasn't my PI like support me at this large conference. So that's why I say that. Um, and so now I have two person problem. Right, I'm engaged. My husband's like we're not going to Missouri. Oh, he wants to go to DC, and so I should preface that my husband is Nigerian and so we have to consider if we travel anywhere he needs to get a visa, and so it's easier for him to get a visa if we're in the DC area, or even just renew his Nigerian passport, he has to be near the embassy, and so I was like, fine, dc is great, and so that's why we decided to come out here to DC.

Speaker 1: 35:50

Awesome, Awesome. That warms my heart. I knew we'd. You know there was a reason why I liked you. I'm Nigerian too, so I'm like you know. I felt a little familiarity. Yes, so throughout your journey, you've been really involved in supporting diversity and equity and inclusion initiatives in STEM. So what are some of the steps that you've taken to make a difference, to increase representation of historically underrepresented groups, especially Black women, in STEM?

Speaker 2: 36:22

Yeah, I think at the NIH it's a little hard because you can't just hire people based on their skin tone and whatnot. But I was really lucky to get to your Tyllis. She's a Black woman, she's going to Emory. I'm super proud of her and I was able to mentor her and so when she got here I was like you're a little mini me. She wants to be a professor. She's really interested in microbiology research. She wants to make a difference.

Speaker 2: 36:57

She grew up outside of it. Well, she grew up in Houston and I'm like how much more do we have similar? It's just so uncanny that I have this mentee that I could see myself in and I'm just like the world is your oyster. I can't wait to see where your career takes you and I even told her you don't stay in academia. I get it Because I was definitely looking outside academia, so that's one way I supported. And then with my teaching, a lot of my students at the community college are minorities and so it was nice because they got to see a professor who looks like them and the way that I would teach. I feel like I'm a little younger and so I was a little closer in age to my students and I could get the cultural references, and so I just think that being able to connect with your students helps you teach them. And I also know don't lecture at your students, have them involved. And so you got to use some of that active learning you got. I play Jeopardy with my students.

Speaker 1: 38:05

I said we not doing that? I love playing Jeopardy with students.

Speaker 2: 38:09

Look, I'm like we're not doing any lecture today. We're going to play Jeopardy and we're going to see how much you know at this current moment, because I just can't keep giving you material If you don't understand the previous stuff. And so I was just a vibe.

Speaker 2: 38:22

I love teaching my students, I love teaching my community college students, so those are some of the things, yeah, and I'm also in a sorority, and so we give back to the community through Feeding the Homeless. We do a book band drive every year, and so we are out in the community trying to help some of these scholars as well, and then I hope that when I start my new position at Cornell, I can support the programs that they already have. But then, once I get tenure, when you get more free time, I can start to implement some of these programs that I'd like to do.

Speaker 1: 38:59

Absolutely Well, tell us congratulations, thank you.

Speaker 2: 39:02

We actually love this again. Thank you, congratulations, congratulations.

Speaker 1: 39:04

Congratulations. So not only do you have this new position, but you are listed as a rising star and sell mentor. And they're listed as 1,000 inspiring black scientists in America, so that's an incredible achievement. And then now you're about to start at Cornell. So congratulations on both of those endeavors. What are you going to be doing at Cornell?

Speaker 2: 39:25

So I'll be continuing my small protein research from my postdoc at Cornell, and so I'm just really interested in how do bacteria respond to stress and how do these smaller proteins that have been historically ignored play a role in this? And so I'm looking at E coli and also basilocetalysts, two of the model organisms in our field.

Speaker 1: 39:47

Cool, very cool. So, as we start to wrap up, we have two questions that we ask all of our guests. One of them is what is something that you would do differently if you had to do the whole doctoral journey over again? What's one thing that you would do differently?

Speaker 2: 40:04

That's a great question, oh man. What would I do differently? I don't know if I would do anything differently, because it helped shape me as a scientist I am today. If I think if I had any different experience, the outcome for me would be different, right? So I don't know.

Speaker 1: 40:29

That's fine. I mean, I love that perspective, everything happened for a reason and all created the amazing sciences that you are today.

Speaker 2: 40:38

So I love it.

Speaker 1: 40:41

And then, lastly, what is one final parting piece of advice that you have for Black women or non-binary doctoral students or aspiring students who are thinking about pursuing a doctoral degree currently on the journey, especially those who are in your field?

Speaker 2: 40:58

Yeah, I would say to Black women and non-binary people who are on their doctoral journey to find your community Baby, you have to have your community, because I wouldn't have made it through undergrad, I wouldn't have made it through grad school, I wouldn't make it through this postdoc without my community. I tell you, I would call my mom. My mom got a master's. She don't know nothing about a PhD, so I would call her crying. She'd like baby, you can do it. You didn't get this far just to give up. And so your family they may not understand. Well, maybe your family's not supportive. Make your own family Right. Make, get your people that you can just lean on, right. I talked about male. Me and male would be crying sometimes. We can't do this. I'm like sis, we don't do this. You've got to have your people. And so, yeah, that's the most important thing community.

Speaker 1: 41:56

Absolutely. I 100% agree. Thank you so much, Dr Burton, for joining us on the Cohort SysS podcast and joining the Cohort SysS community. We are really excited to continue following along your amazing work and we are going to connect anyone who's interested in microbiology or related fields to you so that you can continue doing great and important work of mentoring the next generation of scientists.

Speaker 2: 42:22

Thank you so much.

Speaker 1: 42:33

Thank you again for listening to this week's episode of the Cohort SysS podcast. If you are a Black woman interested in joining the Cohort SysS membership community or you're looking for more information on how to support or partner with Cohort SysS, please visit our website at wwwcohortsysscom. You can also find us on all social media platforms at Cohort SysS. Don't forget to subscribe to the Cohort SysS podcast and leave us a quick review wherever you're listening. Thank you so much for joining us this week and we'll catch you in next week's episode.