Speaker 1: 0:14

Welcome to the Cohort SysSys podcast, where we give voice to the stories, struggles and successes of Black women and non-binary folks with doctoral degrees. I'm your host, dr Ejema Kola, and today I'm thrilled to introduce you to Dr Raquel Martin. If you don't know her yet, she's a licensed clinical psychologist and a researcher with a powerful mission. Her passion centers on Black mental health, advocating for its vital role in success and well-being within the Black community. With training at renowned institutions like Johns Hopkins and the Kennedy Krieger Institute, dr Martin is a seasoned expert. From tackling mental health disparities to guiding racial identity development. Her work is truly transformative. Plus, if you don't follow her on social media, you are missing out on her often hilarious but educational honesty and insight. Welcome to the podcast, dr Martin. Thank you so much for having me. Of course, I feel like I always am supposed to keep these things private, but I'm just a super transparent person, so I have to tell the people that this is the second time we're recording this. You're so crazy to come on the podcast again.

Speaker 2: 1:23

Don't know what happened to the initial recording. It was like a whole two years ago.

Speaker 1: 1:28

Both of us have since had new children since then it was two years ago.

Speaker 2: 1:32

Yeah, because we had to schedule twice, because the first time with Dr Kola, my son, we were recording, we were recording my oldest, I was pregnant and my oldest came in and he was just sick. He was just climbed in and just like you have to go, girl, I got to go. Then we rescheduled that one, because he just climbed on my.

Speaker 1: 1:59

I don't care what you're doing.

Speaker 2: 2:02

The second one was the real one, I was pregnant with the second one and you weren't pregnant yet. But part of the conversation was about what is it like having two? I'm like I still got this one in you girl, I don't know. Then I feel like a couple months later you were pregnant. I was just like, okay, well, I guess she made her decision, did she not?

Speaker 1: 2:27

Here we are here, we are.

Speaker 2: 2:31

Two whole babies have made it to Earthside since our last interview.

Speaker 1: 2:36

Very long overdue, but so much has happened in the world, so much has happened with you and your work and your scholarship. Before we get into all of that, please just tell us a little bit more about who you are, where you're from, what are some things that you like to do when you are not wrangling your kids, as we were just talking about before we started recording.

Speaker 2: 2:56

I was like my child's good. The heck out of me today. But I'm from Philly, I live in Nashville, I'm a full-time professor at Tennessee State University, which is HBCU. Here in Nashville I also have my private practice where I see patients. The way I think about it is what am I doing through the week? Mondays and Fridays are research meetings, so I do research. Currently, one of the big studies we're doing right now is decolonizing intro to psych courses and I'm writing some grants to kind of focus on Afrofeuturism. God, I hope somebody funds them. And then on Tuesdays and Thursdays I'm on campus.

Speaker 2: 3:28

I teach psychology, the Black Experience, and I teach introductory research methods from an intersectional way. And then I have office hours Wednesdays as therapy. Sundays and Saturdays normal life. I always try to forget. I always forget a role. Oh, and I do content creation. I do content creation with social media, so whole platform focusing on Black mental health. I've been trying to do more stuff about what liberation psychology is and I also do some courses for clinicians in training when it comes to anti-racist and antirepressive work. I did a couple of courses for parents for Parenting Black and Viracial Black Children and that centered on how to center their experience in a world that doesn't do that. The differences with Parenting Black and Viracial Black Children, tangible resources to help them and kind of guide them along their journey. When it comes to racial and ethnic identity, because it's very different. It has to be incredibly intentional, and I always state that rearing Black children is not like rearing any other child, because being Black is not like being any other ethnicity, and there are specific things you have to take into account conversations that will consistently be had, things that you have to kind of build up their shields for, but also ways to speak power into them specifically. But yeah, I think those are the things I do. I think that's everything.

Speaker 2: 4:57

Mom of two. I have two toddlers, four year old and 18 month old, been with my husband for 13 years, been married for six. I have a dog too, and when I'm not doing all that, I like to read a lot, I like to bake, I like to cook, but cooking is kind of tough because sometimes I can only do it. It's prepping and it's cooking Like a lot of times it's prepping to make sure my children have something to eat, and when I'm cooking, cooking I used to just really enjoy being able to focus on that and do that alone. But now the baby wants to help all the time.

Speaker 2: 5:28

So I have to find recipes that can also withstand messed up measurements, because measurements will be ruined. So it's just like you know, like we'll be doing cookies or we'll make pasta he's very good at making pasta from scratch and stuff like that but I have to find specific recipes that can withstand like this is going to be ruined. Okay, like not ruined, but like we don't need exact measurements. Right, like we can do biscuits easy, we can do pancakes, cookies easy, we can do. But you know I'm making gumbo. Get out.

Speaker 2: 5:59

I'm not you know, like you cannot touch this, you just touched the shrimp when you just touched the sausage and then we still got the chocolate. Like there's certain things that I'm like, bro, this is my favorite recipe. You can, you can help me with this in five years. I can't do it today. Yes, I need it. I want you to help, but, like, not at the cost of me wanting to eat this all week, and I can't do it.

Speaker 2: 6:25

So I look for books, I wipe butts and I teach. I teach students and I do therapy.

Speaker 1: 6:32

Oh my gosh, I absolutely love chatting with you, listening to you, loving in space and sharing space with you, and I'm going to go in a different order than we typically go because, as you were talking about what you do, you brought up a question that I wanted to get to later. But you know, as someone who is also a person who's doing many things, all joyfully and happily but I know that there are a lot of people you know who are pursuing doctoral degrees, and there are now models that exist that we probably not probably we didn't have when we were in grad school of people who were teaching and also online and also running a private practice or doing a small business and also parenting.

Speaker 1: 7:16

I did not see anyone who was doing that, you know. Luckily.

Speaker 2: 7:19

I didn't either.

Speaker 1: 7:21

There are people like us who are doing that and there are people like we're surrounding ourselves with folks like that. But I would love if you could just speak a little bit to how do you compartmentalize? You seem to you had your whole schedule Monday, friday, tuesday, thursday, wednesday, like, how have you thought about kind of compartmentalize all the different work that you do but still, like, meet the expectations, especially on the tenure track?

Speaker 1: 7:44

So like meeting those goals and expectations with the teaching and the research and the service, while also showing up authentically for your community online and doing the work there, while also, you know, being a present mom and partner and also seeing your clients Like how are you Not that's a balancing at all, but how do you kind of compartmentalize? It makes space and time for all the different ways in which you show up and do.

Speaker 2: 8:06

Yeah, Well, one like something at least three balls get dropped and smashed and and shatter on the floor a week. So just a heads up, like I totally. I think some people handle it very well. I don't I separate according to days, because I separate. That's like that's what I have to do presently, but, um, no, we didn't have that example. I mean, the only reason why I got on social media was because my clients Would consistently complain about, like the way you break stuff down in session. I don't see people doing it that way online and they don't look like us. So I genuinely thought, like, whatever I can, I mean I'll record something and I'll have 10 people watch my videos and I've helped 10 more people that I would during my case. Well, no idea that anyone have an interest in this, but the way I've done it is well. One of the conversations would be like I Ten year is not a goal of mine.

Speaker 1: 8:56

I am tenure track.

Speaker 2: 8:59

But that is not a goal of mine. I consider it's an academia to be an incredibly oppressive environment and if I didn't love teaching so much and research so much, I would never see I wouldn't be at a university, and I think every time I say that people are like, well, isn't that what being a professor is about teaching and research. You would think, no, that's not what gets in the way of me doing stuff right. If it wasn't for the fact that my students are amazing, if it wasn't for the fact that I genuinely need to put out my Programmatic line of research as a way to like contribute to the black community, I wouldn't be teaching, and I honestly think a lot of people are leaving tenure and leaving academia because they found some amazing ways to Teach their own courses. There are people privately funding research studies and working with organizations to do that and not being it being in an oppressive environment especially being, like you know, ebony and the ivory of academia is awful. So I separated according to days.

Speaker 2: 9:56

I have an amazing support system with my husband to be. We've been together. We've been together for 13 years, so he kind of has always seen me be in a ridiculously hectic Environment. It's a good balance because his job is in nothing. No way like my job, like my job will always like there will always be new things to learn. We will always have continued education credits. I will always be looking at a new researcher, new, great, and stuff like that. He's an accountant and his stuff is pretty much like you know. Yeah, if I want to Become like senior at like one of the big three accountant firms, I could, but like that sounds awful and I have no interest in doing that. If he was in the same track as me in terms of there's always something new to do, it probably wouldn't work. And then also, I don't Find social media to be difficult. Personally, one of the things that makes it easy for me to do social media is that I do the work.

Speaker 2: 10:51

I think sometimes people would be like where do you get content from? Well, I will. I had session on Wednesday and one of my patients said they had never heard something put that way and I figured, oh, somebody else could probably benefit from that. So I just did a 30 second video. I'm teaching for courses a week. So when I am covering liberation, psychology and Decolonization, I'm like, oh, other people could use this. And I'll say that I'm. This is I think there are a lot of people who have transitioned out of their jobs to full-time content creation, which makes, which makes total sense. It's way more lucrative and less stressful, but really it's really just giving a light into stuff I do all week.

Speaker 2: 11:32

I see the patients every week, I teach every single week, I have research meetings every single week, but something a ball will drop and shatter to the ground and something will be messed up and I Kind of have to account for that. All right, like taking on so many tasks, you're making a choice and I will say you're making a choice that some things are not gonna get all of you right. So even with the boys like I'm exhausted on weekends we're trying to find a balance to make sure I'm still able to be present and take them out, but most of the time I'm I'm Tired, sometimes like it's, it's just, it is what it is. So when you're trying to add so many things, if you feel exhausted, it's probably because you're doing a lot of stuff.

Speaker 2: 12:12

I'm doing a lot of stuff and I have to be very productive with the time that I have. Like I have to split stuff in today's. I have to know that, like it's Saturday or it's Sunday, even my students. They get a heads up at the beginning of the year. Like I don't respond to emails after five, you get a 48 hour turnaround time to emails. I don't respond to emails on weekend. Also, why are you emailing me on a weekend?

Speaker 1: 12:33

I'm a visit emergency.

Speaker 2: 12:35

You know I always say I am not the Avengers. Do not call me Okay, there's no such thing as a course emergency. If the if the assignment is late, I'll extend it. If something is confusion, wait until I explain it, and if it was confusing to me too, I'll change it. You know, like it's it's not really trying to lead with like. These are how you should be treated as human beings, and Any other environment that doesn't treat you this way is an example of an oppressive environment. But stuff falls all the time. Stuff was all the time. I was running behind because my scared my child scared the crap out of me, so that took me like 10 minutes to like regulate myself and then running behind because of that. They had all their artisanal breakfast. I have yet to make something I'm probably gonna have, like if there's a pork chop in the freezer or something for breakfast, you know, like something falls through.

Speaker 2: 13:17

But I always feel like the thing that keeps me going is One it's amazing to have more Models like, like, so now at this point they're not older than just colleagues. Like my biggest model when it comes to people doing the same thing as dr Bryant, dr Tama Bryant, she's doing it all the time, but everyone else, they're all, it's all of us, it's like you, and then a job opera, and then Erlanger Turner and then Esha Metzger and then Lauren Mims like, we're all the same age, like, so I get to see how we're doing it in our level. But if I think of someone who's doing it above us, though, the it's dr Brian and she just. I mean she, she's been doing the work for forever, but she's the first person I see who's actually integrating. Oh no, and dr Alfie. Dr Alfie too, she would be like one who's a little older than us, but before.

Speaker 2: 14:02

But I feel like we all got online at the same time. Actually, you were alive before me because you were the first person that I was just like, oh my gosh, like I don't know how to flip. She does this. And she's like a collision, too, because I was seeing content creators who aren't doing the actual work, like who were talking about this stuff, but I always feel like they got it. They would like mix it up, or they wouldn't be transparent or they didn't look like me, or they would talk about mental often in general sense, but not like black mental health, and I'm like that's why, when I saw you, I was like oh, instant follows.

Speaker 2: 14:32

Finally, oh my god, somebody who Looks like you know they know what the heck like talk about black mental health. So it's. I feel like it's easier now. I also appreciate people being more transparent, because every time someone mentions tenure, I'm like no, I'm like that is not my goal, like, and I feel like nobody was saying that.

Speaker 2: 14:53

Like, nobody would admit that this is awful, this is terrible. They expect us to do all these things and then wonder why, like we're exhausted in the service and the academia and stuff like that. And I tell people all the time like, oh, how was it being on tenure track? And I'm like, oh, I am on that. It's not gonna happen, I'm sure, and it's a choice. You can make the choice to do that, but I don't think it's a healthy one with the stuff that they do. So I always ask my students when they're like, oh, tenure track. I'm like, okay, so what do you want from the tenure track? Like, what are we thinking of? What are your goals? And do you think this is the only way to achieve that? Because the PhD journey like I've never had worse mental health in my life. It was awful, yeah, and I didn't. The best thing I got was my degrees and my colleagues, but I didn't enjoy my experience at all. I could not stand it. It's it always stayed like.

Speaker 1: 15:42

It's a perfect example of that. Yeah, what were some of the like main triggers for you during your doctoral journey? If they're not too traumatic to talk about?

Speaker 2: 15:51

Oh no, they're not just racism. Racism I had a. I had a professor in class say the n-word we were talking. I'll never forget. It was the history. It was the history of psychology. We're talking about John B Watson, and John B Watson Is a someone who's faint does a behavioral psychologist and he used to pay To watch black people fight, but he didn't call them black people. He used to pay to watch n-word fights and my professor, who wasn't black because of my professors are black felt the need to say the word and I was like, why would you think that's appropriate? She said well, that's why it's, that's what it said in the book.

Speaker 2: 16:29

And being so overwhelmed, like I think a lot of people mentioned, like to me, I'm very unapologetic, but I had to be. I feel like I find that to be a blessing and I had to be broken to get that blessing. I always say I have a personality and intellect, a demeanor that makes people want to humble me at all times, and because of that I had to build up like how I being being myself an environment was less taxing than switch, cold, switching and masking. So having to do that but even then did not say anything else, left the room crying, didn't address it again. She apologized at one point and then she made it a point to say would it help if you knew that my boyfriend was black? But this is my professor. This person is getting paid to teach me. I had someone who mentioned the fact that, like they asked me during my dissertation committee, why didn't you focus on Black, why didn't you focus on European Americans in depth, as you did black people? And I said I wasn't interested in that population and just stared at her until she Felt the need to go to a different question.

Speaker 2: 17:32

During my program I had to be a. I had full-time case low Of four times. I was a full-time student, had full-time courses. Also was a research assistant, had to do my research. I also was a TA, had to TA two classes and then I also what else did I have to do? Also had to be a full-time clinician because you also have to get clinical hours and that was awful.

Speaker 2: 17:54

Also long distance from my boyfriend at the time. Well, he's my husband now, but long distance for that. My husband is not a fallen person, so like that was like super annoying and not having that support system and then just being in an environment where there weren't that many people that looked like me and couldn't grasp how what you said was inappropriate, couldn't grasp how like that was really stupid, couldn't grasp why I had to advocate for focusing on black mental health, couldn't grasp that this was like an impressive and a ridiculous environment in the first place. So I couldn't stand it. But I knew the whole reason why I became a psychologist was to help black people. So I was just like I'm gonna get this degree and I'm getting the freak up out of here. Like that was my whole thing. Like let's go. Like oh, can you do this committee? Nope, you know. Like oh, at one point I had a professor who was my advisor and she was my clinical advisor and she wrote me down.

Speaker 2: 18:50

She marked me down on one of my reviews and I said why did you mark me down on this? And she said well, you got I feel like you weren't taking my coursework seriously because she taught one of my classes and she was like you gotta be on one of my assignments. And I said, oh, yes, I know, I chose to get that B. I chose to go to sleep and get a B instead of staying up and getting an A.

Speaker 1: 19:12

I said, however, and this is how, let me tell you something.

Speaker 2: 19:15

This is how sometimes, this is how ballsy you gotta be. I said, however, you are my clinical advisor, correct? She said yes. I said I am confused as to how this relates to my clinical work. It seems like you are upset about something of your coursework which, but telling me I didn't get a, B, that's already inappropriate. And she was like oh, okay, Well, I guess you're right. I said yes. So she was like okay, so we signed this.

Speaker 2: 19:34

And then the meeting's over. I said, oh, I'm not signing this until you change this. And she's like well, the meeting, the time, meeting time is almost up. And I said that's okay, I've said what I had to say. Did you have anything else to say to me? And she said no. I said okay, Well, I'll sign this when it gets corrected. I'm not gonna sign something I don't agree with. So she corrected it, gave me the points I deserved, and then I found the new clinical advisor the next week.

Speaker 2: 19:56

It was suggested, it was recommended Because if you have people who are trying to incorrectly, you're upset about something about my coursework and you put that on my clinical advice, that has nothing to do with this. And I was very open, like, oh yeah, it shows that B. I know what an A paper looks like. I also know that I'm exhausted and you guys are asking too much of me, so B paper submit, Got two extra hours to sleep Cause it's not always gonna be worth it, and no one has ever asked me for my GPA for my doctoral program. I wish they would. It was a 3.9, for God's sake.

Speaker 2: 20:27

But, you know, no one ever asked me that. Was that one a 3.9? I think it was my master's, but anyway, no one cares right. And I had to make. I had to do extra work, like all of my clinical sites were super European, american centered, so I had to do extra work to find appropriate clinical sites to let me specialize in a population I wanted to work with. I was doing extra work. I also had a side job, cause it wasn't enough to live off of and doing all this and them just being like we need more.

Speaker 2: 20:53

Why aren't you doing research? So my PhD program you could have done a research and clinical track or you could have just done a clinical track. I did both and I started off with three other colleagues doing both. One drop they both dropped. One left the program cause she said it was too much and the other one left to do research only track because she said there's no way to balance clinical and research is awful. I was the only one who stayed to do both and even that wasn't an indicator that their program was too much. And my PhD program was in a med school so I also had to take med school classes, so like it was incredibly unrealistic. They also wanted to. They were trying to force me to stay an extra year. I graduated, I finished in five years. They wanted me to stay in six and they kept saying everyone finishes in six. And I said I am not going to spend another year with y'all.

Speaker 1: 21:36

Point blank here.

Speaker 2: 21:37

I was like I'm not doing this. So what do you need for me to graduate in five? They said you need to do this, Did it all, and even my dissertation my dissertation. I was what was it? 38 weeks pregnant. I did my dissertation defense in front of my committee, walked off the stage, went to the hospital and delivered my child. That's how much I was just like. I got to get out of here. It wasn't pleasant at all.

Speaker 2: 22:01

The best thing is that fact that I get to advocate for people. The best thing is that I get to help the black people I want. But I'm definitely not one of those people who enjoy their experience Like at all, and it's one of the reasons why, when I meet people in training and they're in their program, I always try to just make it a point to be like build your community, figure out what your line is, be comfortable advocating for yourself, Cause at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is what's going on with you. You can't help anyone if you can't help yourself. So choose. If that's a B paper, Choose that you're like oh, I'm either going to take an extra year or I'm going to leave. Choose what your end game is and figure out what you need to get that, because my mental health was terrible and like the only thing that really helped was my community and having people also outside of the field, Because if you're dealing with a lot of PhD students, most of us, you know are just doing terribly, so you really need people outside the program.

Speaker 2: 22:57

Like my husband was people and he would just be like this is insane. I needed someone to remind me that this is inappropriate, because if I was only talking to my colleagues and we're all just going through this terrible thing, sometimes it's hard to remember that this is inappropriate. Sometimes it's hard to remember that not all environments are this oppressive. Sometimes it's hard to figure that out if you don't have people who are not in it. So I always say, like also have someone who's not in your program. Yo, because we lose sight of how insane it is that that professor spoke to us that way because everyone's doing it. And then you tell that story to someone who's not in the field and it's like did you call the cops? Like you know, they're just like oh, my God.

Speaker 1: 23:35

Yeah, no, that's such a good point. I hadn't thought about that, but I agree that's. I think that's actually one of the things that kept me grounded in grad school, like I, when I had roommates for the first four years three years at grad school, I was. I was like I'm not living on campus and I had roommates who were not yeah, they were not doctoral students, they weren't in school, they were real people with real jobs.

Speaker 2: 23:57

They had real jobs, real money.

Speaker 1: 23:59

Yes, and I think that was right, like that, being able to talk to them one about like the weird things that were happening, but also just about not academic things, like to remain a real person, cause I feel like sometimes when we are in a doctoral program, you can get so consumed with the research and the teaching and the coursework that you feel like that's all there is to life and it's like there's actually real life happening outside of school and it's hard to.

Speaker 1: 24:25

if you're, if you're only surrounding yourself with other grad students like if you're roommate. If you have a roommate is another doctoral student like I can see how you can get sucked into this world in which academia is your whole life, and that's not healthy, that's not good.

Speaker 2: 24:40

It's not. And I always got like overt and covert messages Like that was the sacrifice I had to make and I was never willing to do that because we're in school forever. So even like when I was in a lab meeting and I was just like, oh guys, I'm going to be out next week, I had to give them my heads up and my at the head of the meeting, dr Riggs, was like, yes, raquel, are you going to tell people why you're going to be out next week? Or and I was like, oh yeah, cause he already. I was like I'm getting married, so I'm out next week. And they're like what? And it was just like cause I kept it so separate. I'm like, listen, I keep my heads down, do what I gotta do. That's the only way it can work. He was like, yes, raquel's getting married next week, so she's not going to be here. And they were just like, oh my God, you just said it so nonchalantly and I'm just like you're all cause y'all not my people.

Speaker 2: 25:29

Now, when I get off the phone with y'all when I leave this meeting. I'm going to be like, ah, we get two more days. I'm about to be, you know, but y'all not my people, so that's not what this is for. But I was just like, yeah, so let's just double check to make sure we have, like, the scales done, all that done. I'm getting married, I'm out right.

Speaker 2: 25:46

But so many people had tried to overtly or covertly tell me that my life had to be placed on hold, Even with the whole getting pregnant thing. I did. But I have a bachelor's. I have two masters and a PhD in medical, clinical psych. I did a APA accredited internship and a postdoc and then I still had to sit for my licensure exam. So that was my whole life Got married during that time I'm still kept my relationship with my husband and then also got pregnant and none of my all my kids were playing honey. Cause one I'm a Christmas baby. I hate having a winter birthday, so I'm not Christmas baby. My birthday is December 19th, but people try to scam me, so I very much was like hey, listen, listen, I know when I ovulate, I know all this.

Speaker 2: 26:25

Let's just see if we can make this happen, because I do not want a winter baby. I hate being a winter baby so much and I just can't do it. It makes that incredibly difficult for booking things. Also, I don't want to share my birthday, mom, I'm a twin. And it's also another thing. I'm a twin, I share my birthday with one other person. I refuse to share my month with anyone else.

Speaker 2: 26:46

So all my children were very much like planned. I'm like all right, let's pull the goalie, let's see what happens, right, and I get pregnant very quickly, like we were both like whoa. Ok, we were right to use the protection we used because we could have this could have went really bad Very quick. So I get pregnant very quick. So I'd always planned it.

Speaker 2: 27:04

I knew I was going to try to get pregnant during my program and when I did my internship and I told the head of the program that I was pregnant, the first thing she said was how excited are you? She didn't say anything about logistics. She didn't say anything about well, you know, you need 2000 hours to graduate from this. Her first thing was how excited are you? And that was one of the things that always makes me advocate for that program at Johns Hopkins because, just to be honest, so many people get told us as women you know we're the main people doing PhDs we get told that stuff has to be placed on hold and I refuse to do that because there was no way I wanted that.

Speaker 2: 27:43

I knew I wanted to have a child. I also knew that this was something that we had worked towards too, and having people around me, I didn't have any other example of people doing it Like everyone was like oh, I graduated and then I got married, or I got married but then I came back. I got married on a Friday and came back on Monday for my lab meetings and I used to just be like y'all, have lost y'all, and they weren't black.

Speaker 2: 28:04

But in my mind I'm always like you don't lost your black mind, even when it's not a black person, because in my mind I'm like you don't lost your black mind if you think, and you know all that. So, like I never really had an example of that, I didn't have any mentors who were doing what I wanted to do. I had people who were very much either in the clinical sector or they were in the research sector, because it is very difficult to manage both. I didn't have anyone that was black and looked like me, who could have a conversation about family planning and family building, acknowledged the fact that this environment was racist and still say everything was OK. I didn't have it. I honestly still don't have a mentor. I didn't have a mentor in that sense and I was limited to nobody was really doing social media. So I was limited to the people around me and if nobody looks like you and you don't know who to reach out to, you're kind of just forging your own path. So I just had to know my values and what I wanted and kind of had to just be like willing to either fight for it or get rid of some stuff. Like fight for getting married oh, we need you to be here Monday, no, yeah and be like what's the next step? You know it's not, it's not PTO, it's not a. It's not a, it's not a. You know I'm not, it's not a request. Is this? Is a statement? I'm leaving, you know, and just be willing to, and that's why it is like a whole, I'll be, I'm the main person. Who'll be like listen, I'm on your side. We just gonna fight for this because I've had to.

Speaker 2: 29:28

You have to decide, like these are my values. Who am I going to listen to? Am I going to listen to me in terms of what I want, or I'm going to listen to this program saying that I can't have it? Am I genuinely going to think the only way to get like publications are to, you know, sacrifice everything in my being? Or am I going to find other partnership? Am I really going to think that first authors are the only things that matter? Or am I going to identify the fact that my goal is to put out tangible research and I don't have the ability to put out a first author, but I do want to build collaborations and I'm okay with being a second author on this, like, what am I going to decide is important? What am I going to figure out is my mission, because, coming in, they're like first authors are all that matter and you got to kill yourself to get those. No, I'm going to happily reach out to someone, be a second author and be like tell them what you need for me to be in this second place. Don't even try to put me first. I'm not here for that right. But you have to decide, like, what's genuinely important for you, because you will have people telling you first authors are all that matters.

Speaker 2: 30:19

Only way that you can come up with, only way that you can teach, is in academia. I have a platform of over a million people and I teach people about psycho education, black mental health, liberation, psychology. That will reach way more than my. I teach 150 students a semester will reach way more than that. What if I believe that? What if I believe?

Speaker 2: 30:38

And honestly, in academia, you know, like people are so much older, some of them are just like fuddy duties, like, oh, you did that on your, your Instagram, you know, and I'm like, yeah, I did it on my Instagram. I cited myself as well as other people, and look at that. We're at 55,000 views. How many people came to your, your lecture? That was inaccessible and like to me. You used too many $20 words when I thought how many Cool I got. You know Viola Davis just reposted me. But you sure, yes, yes, please, please, please, tell me how you reaching more people. Explain it to me. You know, like cause, it's just, it's so, it's just. Sometimes I'll be like that's wack and it'll be as old out care how old school it is. Some stuff is just wack.

Speaker 2: 31:28

Research has never meant to stay on the stuff it was meant to be and it was meant to be accessible. It was meant to be translational, it was meant to serve us. And you have all these fuddy duties who are over here writing studies that will never apply to us. They're writing here, they're doing all this quantitative research instead of qualitative stuff that will actually give honor and narrative to the, you know, honor to the themes that were identified that will actually be applied to us. But they got that NIH grant and NIH told them that this was worth it to do another study on a process that will never be applied to us.

Speaker 2: 31:58

Do you know how many resources are in the discussion section of an article? How many tangible examples you can have in terms of ways to combat racism related stress, race over that battle fatigue that are in the discussion section that no one will read, and you're too high and mighty to make up a skit that will cover your amazing research that you did. I'll do the cameras. I will say you know what this reminds me of Racism related stress, and here are some tips to do it. And if you want to read the article, you can read the article, but if you don't, this video just gave you 10 tangible tips that I guarantee you will decrease your mental off right.

Speaker 2: 32:33

Like, the aspect of people not being on social media, I feel as though is egregious and unethical, because if our goal is to be accessible, social media is accessible. Right, like if I every most of my my things, most of my posts, it'll be like oh, here are some tangible tips. Here's the resource I got this from. Sometimes I'm just quoting me, but I'll be like here's a citation, but where did you get all this information? From this amazing scientist who did this work? People aren't going to read the journals, but they'll watch a one minute and 30 second video that provides them with the same exact stuff. Like there's so many people who aren't making stuff accessible. I feel like it's part of our job to be on social media, like even this. I would have loved this podcast when I was in school that I can like I can legit look every single week and see another black clinician who is either struggling or has resources, and I don't have to think I'm insane for saying that like, hey, this place is racist, does anyone else feel?

Speaker 2: 33:24

like this is, you know, like, but you have people who are sitting on academic gold and they're just like, I don't know how to work the camera, but you can work. Spss and SAS and STATA, you can work. You can do a, you can do a, a quality, you can do a qualitative and quantitative data analysis, but you can hit, play and record and add a caption. Come on, well, I think.

Speaker 1: 33:45

I want to challenge something that you said, because I actually I think I disagree with you. You said that the goal is to make the research accessible, and I actually inherently don't think that academia was set up so that research. Oh no, it wasn't. Like, that's where the that's where the the clash is. Like the institution field, it's supposed to really be closed off to the lay person. Like we are.

Speaker 1: 34:11

We're supposed to work with the knowledge and we're supposed to hoard it and we're supposed to only talk to ourselves, which is why it's like seem to be better to publish an article that was peer reviewed, that seven people read it, than to publish something, even if it's like published in the Washington Post, like that stuff is looked down upon.

Speaker 2: 34:28

It's not, it's meant to be elitist right.

Speaker 1: 34:30

Exactly.

Speaker 2: 34:31

So yeah.

Speaker 1: 34:32

I yeah, I just want to push back on this idea that, like I definitely don't think a lot of people think it's their job to be accessible. I feel like they they intentionally write and research and publish in a way that is inaccessible to folks, even the language that people use. I used to struggle so much in grad school I was like I can not read 20.

Speaker 2: 34:51

I just don't understand.

Speaker 1: 34:53

I don't understand what you're trying to say, and so many of us are taught to write that way. We are like we. We are taught that the more flowery language that we use, the more times we drop, as you say, the $20 words the social like. It's just the things that no actual, like regular person will understand. People, even in the field, don't understand these words because they're so big.

Speaker 2: 35:17

Well, but you know they do that on purpose. It's very complicated.

Speaker 2: 35:20

Yeah, my, when I was in training, when I was told that if you can't break a concept down to a four year old, then you don't understand the concept, because some of my patients were as young as four and while and this is one of the things I don't agree with academia, while academia was meant to be elitist in classes and hoard information because we weren't even supposed to be there. That's why tenure is not the goal. That's it's wrong. Yeah, it wasn't built that way, but we can both agree. That's wrong, that's ridiculous, because you know what? That's? An act of violence against us hoarding information that can contribute to the decrease in minority mental health disparities, the increase of our mental health and wellbeing. That's violence against the black community Right, keeping us out of those faces. I consider that to be an active war and I'm a treated as such right. But that's violence. When we can identify the fact that having individuals that look like you teach you, means you'll do better. When we can identify the fact that providing you with these resources will help your mental health and wellbeing be better. When we can identify the fact that representation in itself, racial identity development, is a barrier against perceived racism, mental health difficulties and increases identity development and you don't make it a point to put that in all your education. It's violence Like this is it's, it's an act of war, right? So when people are, when we talk about the aspect of academia and it wasn't meant to be elitist, we weren't even can you imagine, can you imagine if we went back in the day and they're like who, these two, first of all women, second of all black, and then black? Oh my God, can you imagine I would, oh my God, the violence like the? Can you like the, the, the dissonance that would arise. Like who are? They say that they're doctors, but I don't, I don't know, I don't, I don't understand, I don't understand. You know that's what it was made for, but that's not how it's supposed to be, because it's not serving anything. And I tell my students all the time, I'll call my students my dismalentilers Right. And you can have intro to psych, but we do intro to psych, decolonizing. You do a psych on the black experience. You could do research methods, but we do it from an intersectional way. The system is broken and your job you took my class you are supposed to dismantle this whole system. That is the job. And if you want. If you didn't want the extra, go take it with someone else, because you know darn well there are plenty of professors who aren't going to do that. I call them my dismalentilers.

Speaker 2: 37:30

I feel the same way with academia. You know, in our research methods class we talk about the aspect of open science and the fact that they never knew that if they had to pay for a research article, that we didn't get paid the public, the people who came up with the article, didn't get paid. Yes, I'm going to talk to you about that. They don't know that. I'm going to talk to you about qualitative analysis and IRB. I'm also going to talk to you about intersectional research, quantitative, qualitative, unethical practices and whether academia should survive the way it does. I'm going to talk to you about all of this and, yes, you're going to know reliably and validity, but you're also going to know that we're going to do. You're going to burn this system down and start a new one because we need to like.

Speaker 2: 38:05

I want you to critically think right, it wasn't meant for us, but it's not. The number of times I'll read an article, I'm a nerd. We're both clearly nerds, or else we wouldn't have been in school our whole life. So, like the number of times I read an amazing article and I'm like yo, this would be a great skit. You know what? This would be a great commercial. The mental health coalition should get on this.

Speaker 1: 38:26

Why isn't you know, like man you know what I thought of.

Speaker 2: 38:29

You know what I thought of when I heard like I would hear hip hop songs and I heard like Megan Eastallian's, one of my favorite right now.

Speaker 1: 38:36

And I'm like.

Speaker 2: 38:37

You know what this Megan Eastallian song makes me think of role playing and a dynamic in terms of mental health and the way to advocate for yourself. So I made a skit about it. You know, like the number of times I'll read the research and I'm like this is amazing. I can make this into a two minute skit easily. And this can reach so many people. And you're still using the resources because, at the end of the day, I feel like when resource sits on a shelf, when it has this aspect of being a leadess, we're not helping the people that we need to.

Speaker 2: 39:03

I also feel like people are getting funded that need to stop getting funded, in my opinion, but we're not helping the people that we need to. And then, as a mental health clinician, as a licensed clinical psychologist, I'm being expected to work with people in therapy to help them outrun racism, economic disparities, classism, elitism, like therapy was never meant to be enough and I and licensed mental health clinicians are very much expected to. Hey, let me help you outthink racism. Hey, let me help you manage your stress when it comes to food scarcity. Hey, let me help you deal with your anxiety of not having a livable wage, instead of being like these are the policies that needs to be done.

Speaker 2: 39:44

With food scarcity, you know like we're being expected to do stuff inappropriately and I feel like when we don't, you know, come in as clinicians and try to make it more accessible. We need to upend the way academia is, because some people feel like, oh, when you get tenure, it's to be lazy. No, when you get tenure, it's to be able to be able, when it was accessible, when it was able to happen for people to actually do the research that they wanted to do in order to get to the tenure. Like I love how people will be like you get tenure and get lazy no.

Speaker 2: 40:12

It means like oh my God, I can do that research study I've been trying to do my whole life and I'm looking for it. Oh my God.

Speaker 2: 40:17

I can actually do what I got into this field to do, and whenever I'm looking at students who are training, I'm like your north star needs to be your mission. Don't think about it in terms of jobs, like, of the title, like, oh, I'm gonna be a tenure professor. Tell me why. What do you wanna achieve with that? Oh, I wanna contribute to the decrease in mental health disparities. How, oh, I wanna do it according to therapy. What's your specialty? Okay, so what if I told you you can do that at academia, but you don't have to do that at academia If academia doesn't work out for you. When you feel as though your mental health is taking such a nose dive that you cannot remain in this environment, let's figure out some ways for you to achieve your mission, because we didn't think about it as a job, we thought about it as a mission. Let's think about ways for you to do it another way. Do you wanna have a nonprofit? Do you wanna come up with your own mental health channel where you identify ways to advocate for people? Do you wanna? There's a whole organization called GirlsGrantorg and their whole job is to fund research studies that come with like intersectional aspects of black, of women overall, and they're funding research and you can be. You can have an organization, you can be in academia or you can be not and you can still be conducting amazing research. Right, push out, monique. It's Monique Morris, right, yeah, monique Morris. Her book. People Will Talk About Push Out and Not Realize because she made it so accessible with a book and a documentary and a graphic novel and a guide to make spaces more inclusive for educators and clinicians. They are quoting some of the most intense and amazing research, but she made it accessible, right, the amount of work she had to do to do that is insane and she shouldn't have had to do it.

Speaker 2: 41:41

But, like, when I'm talking to students and they tell me they want a PhD, I'm like do you or do you wanna achieve your mission in a different way? I try to tell them like I understand that there's gonna be, especially like people with things that try to disrupt you. Your North Star is your mission, not your job title. I want you to break down what you wanna do. I want you to break down how you wanna contribute and I want you to break down what you're willing kinda I always say it this way who you're willing to punch in the face, to kind of like make sure that you're not derailed, because who are you willing to do a metaphorical throat punch to be like I'm not coming in? I told you I was tired. I'm not coming in, okay, so if I have to take another week or do another course, fine, but I'm not coming in. Who are you willing to literally say no in order to maintain your wellbeing?

Speaker 2: 42:29

And if you go into these programs without setting that up, without writing these down, you can't achieve goals that are not written down. You can't maintain boundaries that are not expressed. You can't right. You have to think about it like what am I willing to do and what am I willing not to do? And don't think that because you're in your program and you haven't written this down, that you can't do it. You can, I let man.

Speaker 2: 42:50

When I tell you people who met like first year Raquel, really, they really got whatever the freak. Oh yeah, I'm tired, but sure I can write that. Oh yeah, sure I can show up to let the animals out the left, yes. And then second or third year, I'm like yo, this is crazy. Let's see what happens when I say no, because let me tell you something, I'm starting to not care and you're starting to get rid of my mental health, right. But people who got oh, you used to be so, so, more amenable. I was more amenable to you taking advantage of me and now I decided that it's inappropriate for me to put you before me. So I hope you got all you needed from first year me, because I'm throwing bowls every day and I don't care. Like I've literally had conversations and they just look at me like so are you not gonna do it? I'm not.

Speaker 2: 43:35

And low and behold, someone else came in to do it. Low and behold. You know like cause, when you think about it in our programs, all of the stuff that they're getting from us, we it's, it's, it's expensive, a TA, like when they had to at one point they had to put it in as a job to pay us. They had to put it in and they had to make a cre. They had to create a special job because the income that they were paying us was so low that the system that they had to enter our job in would not accept the wage. It was so low that the system was like for these number of you know cause, sometimes they'll quiet. For these number of like responsibilities. We can't pay them this.

Speaker 2: 44:11

They had to create a specific thing, like to be a research assistant alone. I think the baseline salary was like 40K or something, 40 or 50, but we were, they were putting in a job thing for a research assistant, teaching assistant and clinical worker and we're putting it as like, oh, we're gonna pay them 30K. And they were like what you can't? You can't, like they had to create something Like we have to. It's oppressive, it's not ethical. I always say we need a union, but all of us are too busy to make a union to make sure that we're not taken advantage of. I always say like, as someone who didn't have a mentor, didn't enjoy their experience, still had a baby, got married, did everything that I needed to do. What changed for me was stating that, like this is what I'm willing to do and this is what I'm willing to like, kind of punch someone in the throat to maintain and will not care. Like I'm getting married, I'm having a baby, I'm not doing another data analysis, fight me. And sometimes, literally, I would be like fight me Because I am not doing it. Oh, you're gonna graduate in six years, I'm graduating in five. Fight me, oh well, we don't think you can do that. Tell me the requirements. We can tell you the requirements where we don't think you're gonna make it Cool. I don't care what intent you're writing the email, I just need the email. Okay, I just need the list. I don't care if you believe I can complete the list, I just need the list. You have to have that as your north star, because the environment, just like you said, dr Cola, it's not meant for us. It's not meant for us, it is meant to be elitist. And when you, most of the time with black people and PhD programs, this is part of our activism Like we wanna be agents of change. There's a reason why we went into this. We wanna make stuff more accessible. We're in the pursuit of intellect and then, when you're having the pursuit of intellect, you are gonna have to change your mindset.

Speaker 2: 45:57

I used to think that academia was the only way. I used to think there's no way I can do research and help people without doing these NIH stuff. And then I got on social media and then people are like I never knew that this is a sign of depression. I thought I was mad when we both know there are so many studies that say that very point, but no one made it accessible to the people that's meant to help. And one of the advice I tell people in training get on social media. Get on social media because people need to see us. You were the first black doctor I saw on social media who was also doing doctor work.

Speaker 1: 46:33

Like, actually like oh yeah, this is what I did today.

Speaker 2: 46:36

This is what I did today, you know, telling me oh, get rid.

Speaker 1: 46:39

This is what the like the, like the doctor. This is what I wore to TA. This is what this is the first time I saw, and I was just like and she's on social media.

Speaker 2: 46:47

She's not gonna kick that out. Oh my God, like she's actually doing this stuff. Oh my goodness, social media doesn't take away your credibility. If anything, we need to see more people like us to be like oh my goodness, you taught your whole class in a public enemy shirt I did. I love them.

Speaker 2: 47:06

You used a Megan B Stylian quote to discuss cognitive dissonance I did, you took. You talked about Sukiyana to discuss the aspect of consent and coercion Sure did. Yeah, and you know who's gonna remember that for the rest of their coursework? My students. You know what they're not gonna remember? Well, if you look at the intricacies of the dynamic, oh my God. And as someone who understands all the words, half the time in my head there's a translation and when they're doing their presentations, like these things and I'll be like this could be so interesting, I'll be hearing it I'm like man, this is an amazing study. It is boring. As freak though I bet you, I could freak this and make this into, this could be a whole you know like, and it's amazing. There's so much amazing. I am a nerd, yeah.

Speaker 1: 47:51

I am a nerd.

Speaker 2: 47:53

Okay, I hear a good research study and I'm like, oh my god, this is so cool. Did you hear about the way that they did that coding analysis? Oh my god. The thematic oh my, you use photo voice. Oh my, how many participants did you tell me? Oh my goodness.

Speaker 1: 48:07

And what did they say?

Speaker 2: 48:10

Oh my god, like you, you gave them their own cameras. Oh my god. And then? What did they say? Oh my goodness, sps, qualitative analysis, yes. And then they'll be like oh, this study was actually done two years ago, I just haven't been able to. Oh, the people need to know. The people need to know. Oh my goodness, you mean to tell me, if you give kids all town to me, they're able to Take care of themselves. You mean to tell me, by telling black children about themselves and their culture and not that it started at enslavement, they're less likely to engage in risky behaviors. And you over here, worried about having the sex talk with them, is Going to make them have sex, when having the sex talk with them actually decreases the likelihood, and there's a million studies that say that. But you haven't. You haven't made a skit. Why haven't you made a skit? Why is there no YouTube for this? What is wrong with you? You?

Speaker 1: 48:54

know like it's just like.

Speaker 2: 48:56

People. I'd be like people like you, just so chill I am, but I'm let you know I'm the biggest, I'm the nerdiest nerd in life. I just also Grew up and Philly also realized stuff has to be applicable and I try to apply stuff the way I would want it applied. You know like why? Yes, that's a great article. Can we? Can we put it to music or?

Speaker 1: 49:13

yeah, is there a way to um?

Speaker 2: 49:15

when I talk, talk to my kids about diagnosis of. Like we talked about PTSD, I used the song mine playing tricks on me, the hip-hop song that most of them know. Um and been like okay, so break out, break down the symptoms and They'll never forget. Avoid its cognitive distortions and stuff like that. Like, why be boring when we could be fun? Yo, like, why can't we just be fun? Learning is fun. Why can't we like, come on Dance and then cuz think about how much we think, about how much work we put into this? Yo, I'll be darned if I'm bored by my own words. I'm not gonna be bored by my own word. It took so much to do this.

Speaker 1: 49:52

I'm see you. I need to be entertained too.

Speaker 2: 49:57

I'd be like, no, this could have been a, this could have been a good skit girl.

Speaker 1: 50:01

All right, I mean, I'm here with you at this conference you're To get back into, because I was, you know, I did social media in a different way. I definitely started not really talking about my research and then I just like I went too far into the Monitization aspect that has, like it was just too much. So now I took a lot, I took a little break, but Trying to work my way back to it, but like approaching in a different way. So you are definitely inspiring me to Um, stop overthinking. I feel like that's a lot of us get in our head like we overthink Okay, how are we, how is this gonna make sense and who's gonna see it? And what does this mean for Ten? Or or the next job that I don't have, because a lot of us don't have?

Speaker 2: 50:45

We're not even working. We're over here worried about stuff right that part, um.

Speaker 1: 50:51

So you're definitely inspiring me and I'm sure anyone who's listening is. As I said, if you are not following Dr Martin please, I didn't mean to, I know I'm like clapping on kid, but you need to follow her because you need to have fun with it.

Speaker 2: 51:03

Yeah, anytime that my anytime, my media, my content changes is because I'll get, I'll board, I'll get bored by something. I'll be like I've been doing skits for a minute. Let's do some lip syncing. I've been talking about teacher for a minute. When's the last time I did like? It's really just like to entertain me. And the reason, like in academia, it has trained us to think that we don't know enough. I'll talk to students and they'll be like well, when you know, when should I feel comfortable discussing my level of expertise? When I'm, when I'm hyping my students up to be like we got this dissertation defense, I always remind them girl, anybody, let me say something. Nobody is an expert on this topic other than you in this room. Okay, don't let this environment make you feel like you don't know. This study, that these studies that you've been doing, every single literature Review. This environment tries to make you feel like you don't know, when you do know. All of y'all who get ready for your dissertation, committee conference Presentation, all that. We don't know the information as much as you do. Yes, there's not a Now. No one knows the information as much as you do. And if you don't know the answer, ask.

Speaker 2: 52:02

During my master's thesis, I got asked a question. I didn't know the answer. My advisor was in the audience. I said I actually don't know the answer to that question. However, my advisor, who also specializes in this, do, and I said would you like to answer the question? Um, dr Gruber, he loves oh my god, he loves showing his intellect. But the fact that people were like, oh my god, you were okay, saying you didn't know. Yeah, I'll trust somebody who says they not right before I trust somebody who said they right. All the time you expected me to tap dance up here like a freaking Sambo honey, no. And also like I'm ready to go because after this thesis, my man is taking me to eat. So, like, I don't know, my advisor is right there, ask him.

Speaker 2: 52:40

You know, don't make these people make you feel as though you gotta lie. You know I don't know the answer, but I could find it for you. Um, if you come to the next reason, I don't know the answer, but my advisor, who's been doing this for 10 decades, does? I just did this research study in a year. Why, why? Why? Why? Would I know the answer? Stop asking me stupid stuff. Okay, ask someone else.

Speaker 2: 52:59

Like, but also don't feel like you don't know the, the amount of expertise I had In minority mental health disparities as it comes to, like diagnostic disparities, from, just from my thesis, you, you know way more Then you. Then then this environment will make you think and they try to humble you. They try to make sure that you, that you, don't understand your information, because if you realize how much you knew, you would also realize that this is this either is not the place for you, yeah, or you need to talk your ish a little bit more, yeah, the reason why people would be like, oh, you know, trying to humble me because this should be like oh well, this was from this citation, this citation, that citation you may recognize the name. That's mine, um, and that's why I'm telling you that that's the answer. Did you have other citations that, that, um, were antithetical to my point? No, you just wanted to make a point.

Speaker 2: 53:43

Shut up, don't do that, don't do that. You're not, you're not. And if I don't know the answer, I will be like the. Were you aware of this article that came out a month ago? I was not. Can you tell me about it? Oh Well, I'll, I'll read up on that. And you know what, since I'm in the pursuit of intellect and not in the pursuit of being right All the time. I can also understand the evolution of thought and some things may teach me to know more, but I'm not going to sit here and tap dance and act like it's wrong to be wrong.

Speaker 1: 54:07

Yeah, if you're, if you're learning about anything you're going to realize you're wrong.

Speaker 2: 54:10

Why are we doing research to get answers to questions that we don't know? Um, don't let them make you think you don't know. Get on social media, talk your stuff, even if it's. I said like, I said this twice with Dr Cola even just seeing someone who looked like me, show like what their journey was, even like this is my cute outfit for it today. Oh, my god, bright colors and academia. What you can do that you don't have to. It doesn't have to be a blazer every day, or it could be something cute like even if it's just showing the fact that we're here, yeah, we're out here doing it. Get on social media. We won't know more than you. And if someone does, guess what? Oh, you might have just found a mentor or a colleague to collaborate with Absolutely, yeah, like just don't let people.

Speaker 2: 54:51

That's how the the way the aspect of oppression like when it comes to like injected, which goes into internalized oppression, is like I tell my students all the time you only somebody only has to call you stupid five times, you will call yourself stupid the six. That's what academia kind of does. We always feel so uncomfortable, just like you mentioned. Well, how do I know if I know enough about it? And what if someone says you're wrong? Okay, thanks for that. Are you gonna share the resource? Are you gonna help me get right? Or you just wanted to tell me I was wrong? Get out of here Blot, you know. Like what's the? What's the point? Don't overthink it. I have been doing an entire post. I did a post one time about like something with mental health and I had rice on my shirt. I ate rice off of my shirt, finished it, and it didn't get away from the fact. The fact is like this is something that could help you. Who cares?

Speaker 2: 55:32

Okay, I'm trying, listen, I'm trying to help black people now now am I gonna be wrong sometimes, yeah, but I'm trying to help black people. So, like, as long as I help 10 people, I don't care if this twist out is messed up, I don't care if I I look like I got the number of times I almost reposted something just because, like, oh, look at that, there's crust on my mouth. I'm not doing this again. I'm not doing this again. Oh, I forgot to include that one resource. Like, oh, I could have added more. And so many people are like oh, my goodness, I never knew this. Y'all need to record, y'all need to collaborate, y'all need to realize that first author is not the only thing, and y'all need to reach out. I have gotten some amazing collaborations by consistently seeing names and research papers and I'm like they have similar things. I'm interested in reaching out and say could I collaborate with you on something, dr Lauren mims, who I will be doing a talk at South by Southwest edu4 about afrofuturism and cultivating environments.

Speaker 1: 56:25

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 56:26

I legit was like girl.

Speaker 1: 56:27

I love you. Yeah, yeah, she's awesome.

Speaker 2: 56:30

Your research is amazing. Can I work with you on something? And people be like what if they said no, she wouldn't, because she's amazing, but if she didn't say no, then I'll be like do you have any other colleagues? Reach out, build the you know, build a community that you, you need. I didn't have those kind of mentorships, so I reached out to people like and don't feel as though mentorship needs to be someone above you. Dr Lauren mims knows way more about um, um, um, racial identity development when it comes into the Um, uh, the education space than I do, so she is my mentor with that. Dr Joma Alpara knows way more about black identity development when it comes to substance use and substance abuse, so she's my mentor with that.

Speaker 2: 57:06

Sometimes when we hear mentor, we think it has to be someone who's older than us that knows stuff, which can be the case, but they just may know more about you in a topic. Some people ask me to why I got a room for mentor. But people ask me questions when it comes to mental health research, even social media, and it doesn't have to be like a repeated thing. It can just be like we work together on something, but don't don't let it stop you from what kind of what kind of monster would say no, you know, not even know, would just be like how dare you reach out to me? Some people will say no or not right now, which is understandable, but what do you really think? We're going to curse you out? Do you really think we are going to like, like, talk about you, like, call you everything but a child of god For a stating that I admire you when I'm needing help? I've never met a black woman who has ever done that. We, we are here for each other like we, literally we see each other reach out. You see, in the same names, on these research studies and you want to do similar stuff.

Speaker 2: 57:58

Send them an email. You, you have a research article that's behind a paywall. Email the person, the point of contact, and say you need the article. I'm that dr Erlinger Turner, because he's a unicorn, he's a black psychologist. That's a man and there's none out there. And I was like a. My university doesn't have access to this article. He was like here you go. I don't get paid for every click, you know. It's just like here you go. Also, anything else I can help with? Yes, come on my podcast, or else. Yes, you know, just reach out, Don't feel uncomfortable. Utilize spaces like this like cohort sisters. Listen to the podcast, write down your goals and just go from there. Because it feels hard, because it is hard, but it doesn't have to be more difficult. It's going to be more difficult if you try to go at old school, the way this elitist system is Don't.

Speaker 2: 58:42

If you feel as though you read an amazing article and you feel like somebody else needs to know, do it. Put the article in the caption. No one else is going to read it, unless it's a nerd like me. I read it every time, but just think about the salience of being able to hit even if it's 50, 60, 70 people who, I say all the time the amazing resources and recommendations that are in the discussion sections of journals. It's insane. And the fact that people will honestly think that publishing this in a peer review journal is comparable to actually like making it accessible.

Speaker 2: 59:13

They know it's not right but they also know that well, if we kept making this accessible, how are we going to, how are you going to make it like, how are we going to gatekeep education? I mean, how are we going to make you guys think we're geniuses when really someone else published a study that was way better 10 days ago? How are we, how are we going to trick you guys if we make it accessible? Like, oh my god, you're gonna call me out on the fact that that study was Bias. You're gonna call me out on the fact that there weren't enough black people in it. I can't do that. I need you to think I'm really smart, and the only way to do that is to keep you out, because once we get more people that look like us, let me tell you something.

Speaker 2: 59:54

I've been in rooms with so many people smart people and every single time I'm like yo, my friend says something smarter at happy hour and she was three drinks in like I, I'll just be sitting there. Like michelle obama says. All the time she has been in rooms with kings, queens, geniuses, and when she stepped on campus at her, her prestigious institution, she was like this this, I felt her on that. I was just literally sitting here like, um, my, my Friends know more than you and I'm mad that they're not in this room because, literally, but better research ideas in happy hour than ones that got million dollar grants from NIH. And I'll just be like my friends will be like you know what we should do, sick, you know what we should do. We Should go into schools and then we should let these youth create their own program and we should ask them what they want and then we should give it to them.

Speaker 2: 1:00:54

What if we did that? Never get funded girl, but let's get these egg rolls, that gets funded.

Speaker 2: 1:01:01

You're not anxious, y'all, don't let them talk you out. She'll intellect you. You got it, you got it, y'all have it. We, we stay with it. You know the drip is effortless. You know like it's. It's a man, like the way our brain works, and part of that is because we have to think this way and have to be one step ahead, and that part of it is the result of oppression and discrimination. However, the end result is we're bomb, we're bomb. Remember this, that's that's. I'ma leave y'all week because I didn't talk dr Cole's ear up, but i'ma tell you y'all got it. And if anybody tell you, don't gotta give, give me, give me, give me their number in address because when I say Dr Martin is a few Supporter of black people.

Speaker 2: 1:01:41

I'll be like who did it? Who told you that I won't? I will attack them, maybe physically, maybe not. I'm really crying. I have Because that's what you need, though that's what we need. We need people to say, oh well, oh well, they told me I couldn't do the research. Okay, well, let me handle this. You stay out of this. Okay, listen here, you moron. If you don't give us this money, I will come to your home. All right, I will burn it down. Oh my God, give her this $500.

Speaker 2: 1:02:11

Don't hurt Martin, I will destroy you Give it to us.

Speaker 1: 1:02:13

Oh, my God, I have never laughed so much, or I will choke you out the whole Horses Pockets, episode I literally for anyone who is just crazy.

Speaker 2: 1:02:22

We got to be fierce, y'all we got to be willing to punch them in the throat For anyone who is just crazy. And I don't care. I literally don't care, cause I will literally be like what you going to do, fire me. Girl, let me tell you something. Okay, I have a job in two seconds. If you want to fire me, let me send an email. Dr Martin is unemployed. Boom, I had a Hunter in my email. What you going to do? Fire me. First of all, my students would burn that place to the ground, honey.

Speaker 1: 1:02:53

They would be like oh no, you didn't no you didn't, honestly, y'all think of.

Speaker 2: 1:03:02

if the worst thing that they can threaten you with is the firing you First of all. First of all, I kind of wish somebody would fire me because of my black pride, because I need a new car.

Speaker 2: 1:03:10

I would own that place, but second of all, it's unfortunate that people know not to be racist with me because I would be rich, dr Cole, oh my God. But people are just like so appropriate with me. It's so unfortunate, but like, just realize your stating facts. You're not being disrespectful, you're advocating for yourself. Anyone who wants to fire you for that, let them. You will find a lawyer. You can get on my platform. Just give me a cut. Like, listen, no one's going to do that.

Speaker 2: 1:03:38

They put this fear in you because if you start to advocate for yourself, you will realize how wrong that they are. But there is a fear that we're going to get fired or we're going to get and they genuinely can't. Right, no one can fire you for stating like hey, I've worked 72 hours this week. I can't do this study right now. Have them write that out to HR. Have them write that out to the dean. Students stated that they couldn't work another 80 hours this week.

Speaker 2: 1:04:03

I want to see you do it. I want to see you tie, I want to see your little Twitter fingers type that and send that to HR. You know like, don't let the fear get to you. Advocating for yourself, they're not going to be able to fire you. They're not going to be able to let you go. And also you have this community. I'm serious when I say reach out because let me say something, I'll send an alert to every like yo they trying to fire one of us. When can we get out? I know we got to fly coach because we ain't got no money, but like can we make it?

Speaker 2: 1:04:30

Let's go Like. That's what. That's the beauty of communities like this, right, if y'all aren't on your own, you're not on your own, right? We didn't have this. It's amazing that you made this. Thank God we didn't have this. But now you do, right? You have a whole community of people willing to support you we. If this one thing black women will do is write out I don't even need a full explanation before I got my shoes on Tell me in the car. Tell me in the car. You know, I just got to be back in time for snacks for my babies, but you know what? We got three whole hours before I got another butt to white. Let's do it Like you know. Y'all have a whole community. Use it. There was nothing like this when I was in school. It would have helped me so much, and that's why it's like you leave the legacy that you needed. We create what you need. Use it. We'll write out. I'm so serious too, like I'm for affiliate. I'm joking, but I'm not.

Speaker 1: 1:05:20

It doesn't take much for me to be like be like she said what to you when she say that oh, okay.

Speaker 2: 1:05:26

Let me just write this down so I can know what words to use when I tell you that I'm I'm gonna have Amanda Seals. Don Lemme, I'm gonna have people on the phone right now. I'm gonna call Dr Bryant.

Speaker 1: 1:05:38

I'm calling Dr Tama Bryant right now the president of the NPA, and she's gonna get you fired.

Speaker 2: 1:05:44

She's not, she's actually. She's reasonable, but still.

Speaker 1: 1:05:48

Dr Martin, I cannot thank you enough for joining us. I can't be serious, I can't.

Speaker 2: 1:05:53

No, you are serious, I can't be serious and hilarious at the same time, and that is why I absolutely appreciate you.

Speaker 1: 1:05:57

I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. I absolutely adore you. I literally have not laughed this much in a very long time, which is probably sad. I can probably laugh more.

Speaker 2: 1:06:10

I can laugh more.

Speaker 1: 1:06:11

I do. I need to laugh more. I'm taking. One of the many things I'm taking away is that I need to laugh more because I, like I was like I had my abs hurt a little bit on one side.

Speaker 2: 1:06:19

You have to stop from crying when you think about the stuff we go through. It's crazy. Yeah, like I. I laugh through parenting all day.

Speaker 1: 1:06:29

Like I genuinely have to convince you to wipe your butt. I'm a doctor, I have to talk.

Speaker 2: 1:06:36

I have to. I'm going back and forth with someone on the internet about mental health and I have four degrees and they'll be like. I'm not about to argue with you. I'm not either, honey, Nope.

Speaker 1: 1:06:52

What you talking about girls. So much advice. Thank you so much. So, so, so much. We're like 15 minutes over, but I'm so glad that you made time for us today.

Speaker 2: 1:07:02

Y'all better have stayed to the end, guys. Okay, yes, if you had not been to the end.

Speaker 1: 1:07:06

They would have just missed it. So that's on them. They want to just miss it. But yes, I feel like we're going to need to have you back on a part two in our next season, and so people should just stay tuned. But I'm sure they will follow you. We'll have everything in the show notes. Thank you so much again for your time, for your advice and for your joy Of course.

Speaker 2: 1:07:25

Thank you for having me.